Compass warp?? What's the big deal??

[Mojappa]

Does every thread about the warp have to involve the same "the ratio is all wrong" posts? I'm sure Compass knows what they're doing and it doesn't seem to be held back from any inefficeincies from the ratios. I am waitin for extensive feedback but mostly because I just can't afford to upgrade yet but I feel that this heli has a definite place in my hangar within the next 6-8months.

[Merse]

The reason i was wondering about the warp was when i was browsing the black friday sales when i came across one at rotorquest where it said everything was on sale BUT the warp presales. Usually it says all the presale items are discounted as well, but not this time. Thought there was a reason for this. Apparently its because the warp is BAD ASS!!

[Stevemech]

I think the statement "the ratio is all wrong" has to do with are limited choices of motors .1300 kv motors are rare so the choice is stock.Not having the tail driven in an auto is a deal breaker for me.I enjoy autos with my stretched Beam with 360 blades so I will have to look at a different platform , I was excited for awhile but I've come to my senses!
Steve

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by Stevemech

1300 kv motors are rare so the choice is stock.

Scorpion make a 2221 1300kV for the mini Protos, one would assume they would offer that with a suitable shaft for the Warp.

There is also some discussion about using a a 30xx stator motor (scorpion have several stators in that size) for more torque. Will depend on space considerations.

[helihaven]

Originally Posted by Mojappa

Does every thread about the warp have to involve the same "the ratio is all wrong" posts? I'm sure Compass knows what they're doing and it doesn't seem to be held back from any inefficeincies from the ratios. I am waitin for extensive feedback but mostly because I just can't afford to upgrade yet but I feel that this heli has a definite place in my hangar within the next 6-8months.

Well every thread about it also includes "it's the most awesome thing since sliced bread" posts.

I have never said it wouldnt fly...or wouldnt fly well...but I wont stop stating the gearing is way out in left field . I have ran thousands of tests on this very thing over the last year or more, using the same series of motors from scorpion of different KV ratings.

As an example...using my 450 stretch with 420mm blades, and changing nothing but the motors and pinions, a 2221-1020 on 6s with a 15t pinion (10:1 ratio) and a 2221-2010 on 6s with a 9t, both set to run 1800 headspeed, the lower kv motor with a bigger pinion pulled well over 50% more amperage under the same conditions, and that was 10:1....the Warp has 8.44:1....so yeah...it's a sticking point...

It has been brought up that a larger can motor would produce higher torque at lower rpm...quite true..and its the only real option...and then you are adding more weight...pretty soon you have a 500 class bird...with 360mm blades.....like I said..I'll pass...

[GimpyGolden]

@Merse.
RCHeliCanada.com, the original (and still best, bias I know) also have a 10% off BF deal and this does include Warp pre-order.

Here ya go.
http://www.rchelicanada.com/rc-helic...prod_1801.html
http://www.rchelicanada.com/rc-helic...prod_1802.html

and no PST to boot.

[DominicD]

You seem to be on a personal crusade there helihaven, I can understand why you might not possibly like a heli you have never owned, but I don't understand your need to bash it at every possible chance.

I have shown you two vids on the last thread you brought this up of both a super low HS setup and a very high HS setup .... on the same machine. So while your thousands of tests might be academically interesting the proof is in the actual flight vids.

I've owned 6s 450s in the past and know what a good 6s setup does, I have also had 3s machine and know what they can do. What I will say is that I will continue to use a 6s setup on a 450, read into that what you want.

Is the warp going to save the 450 market ? No. Is the warp going to make you a better pilot ? Doubt it. Will the warp be hands down better than any other 450 ? Time will tell. Will the warp make you more attractive to women ? Good luck. But it will be a solid machine and put a smile on the pilots face.

[helihaven]

Originally Posted by DominicD

You seem to be on a personal crusade there helihaven, I can understand why you might not possibly like a heli you have never owned, but I don't understand your need to bash it at every possible chance.

Fair enough...nor do I understand everyone getting a tingle up their leg at just looking at a few videos of something that hasnt shipped yet. especiaqlly when it "flys" in the face of everything I have learned in this little hobby. Have nothing against it personally..it would have been a BEAST had it been designed with a dual stage belt drive...and I would have an order in myself...

[DominicD]

Warp isn't special in this regard. Every new product in this hobby is always seen as a savior. OMG this new fuel tube is going to make me fly like Nick Maxwell !!!


It's fun to talk about new products ... otherwise the forums would be 99.999% people complaining about their 3gx/mcpx/130x

[Slyster]

Where can I get that new fuel tube Dominic?

[DominicD]

Top secret stuff.

[helihaven]

I do LOVE those beefy DFC arms on its head though...gonna have to pick me up a set of those *grins*

[DominicD]

My buddies at the club don't believe it will last but I plan to do a low HS setup. my goal is to get 10-12min flight times, make for a great CM and practice machine.

[GimpyGolden]

Ya I don't see that lasting Dom.
Is there a pool going yet?

[helihaven]

I can bust 30 minutes with my 450 stretch with 1800 hs and 420mm blades....

[DominicD]

Originally Posted by GimpyGolden

Ya I don't see that lasting Dom.
Is there a pool going yet?

Hahaha I bet the average guess is 1 weekend

Originally Posted by helihaven

I can bust 30 minutes with my 450 stretch with 1800 hs and 420mm blades....

You haven't seen me fly

[Jeff_Barrett]

I could use about 10 of those fuel tubes..... all for myself .... err... for customers ...

[spykez]

Helihaven, you're right, the gearing for a 450 seems odd but I think it would be reasonable to say most people are quite happy wit their mini protos's slinging 350's.

I myself will wait and see till the heli is out in the wild for a bit.

[Coco66]

Originally Posted by desertstalker

Scorpion make a 2221 1300kV for the mini Protos, one would assume they would offer that with a suitable shaft for the Warp.

Also here
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...449070&page=19
from post #185 on, a MSH motor.

[Luvmyhelis]

Still a cool heli guys. Lots of groundbreaking design features throughout that I like myself.

And when I talk about doubling efficiency it means it doubling identical load flight times. In my own tests my dual battery setup using two 1300ma 6s batts was broken down into 3 tests. One with 3s that halved the batts. 6s that ran the batts in parallel.
And one with them wired in series to give me 12s.

So you have 3s, 6s, using exactly the same 1300ma 35c 6s batteries. The exact same energy source so the results are based on identical batteries. The motors were almost identical in KV ratings pertaining to the voltage ratings. It is impossible to exactly match them due to wiring variances. But 30kv off isn't worth mentioning. Just to settle any further arguments here it has to be mentioned. The 6s motor was made by Dan @ GoBrushless.com and is a Scorp based 2221-2010Kv motor. The 3s Scorp turned out to be 3990kv, both using the same 9 stator 6mag motors and tied off the same so the torque/performance figures were as close as possible. The esc was the same Ice 50.

The new Scorp 12s motor is a prototype 12 stator 10mag 2221 series motor rated at 1020kv using a Phoenix HV30 esc. I now have an HV 40 to continue testing with and recently posted up half a dozen two to three minute runs pulling only .7amps with a newly wound 12s Scorp so I fully expect these flight test figures to get much longer than previously. As I was now able to tune the pwm/timing rates more accurately and see the logs. Unfortunately the previous prototype heli the 3s,6s and early 12s flights were done with was destroyed due to gear failure and the resulting crash. So all or any of my newer tests will be with a clean slate and may not be comparable.

The exact same platform was used in the three early comparison tests. So it had the same blades, gearing, rpm, weight, and flight loads. This wasn't flown in 3d as 3d is impossible to replicate exactly. And they were flown off the gov since using the gov also taints the results due to load variances. I also know lots of guys that move to 6s from 3s that report half longer flight times, but admittedly they all fly them harder due to the power increase.

The 3s setup produced a 9:43min flight and the electronics came down hot enough to fry eggs on.

The 6s setup produced a 18:55min flight, and the electronics came down barely warm. I admit I flew this heli harder during the tests as it was windier during and it just had more all around power. Especially towards the last 3 minutes of the pack.

During the 12s tests, sadly the 12s setup used old 350 plus cycled batteries as the previous ones had burned up in a crash. I recorded a 25min flight. Due to the amperage draws recorded, it would have turned in very close to a 40min flight if the same batteries were used during its tests as were during the 3s and 6s flights.

I took pictures of the DX7 screen on these tests at the moment of skid down contact.

The results don't lie. Just wish I had the same batts for the 12s test. So lets look at these numbers. The 6s almost doubled the 3s times, and the 12s theoretically will almost double the 6s times. So in actual flight times we see an almost doubling of the 6s numbers over the 3s numbers. So it will be explained as twice the efficiency to do the same job with the exact same power source.

If you have a problem with these figures, go do these same tests yourself. I proved it. To me those that want to quote theory can stay quiet till they have their own true figures. Because until you do, it is nothing but noise.

Like they say about fast cars. Put up, or shut up. See ya at the drag strip.


Personally I was looking at the Warp to continue my 12s testing with it as my platform. Stretched with 420mm blades as the previous two helis were. It might fly just fine with a 1300kv 6s motor using 360mm blades since 6s systems are so much more efficient, even with low Kv systems. But for my purposes I couldn't make the gearing work for my 420mm 12s stretched project.

Like I said, I still like the heli. May still buy one. Because Helihaven is talking about designing a secondary gear interface for the Warp that will allow me to use my current motors with it. If that happens, I will def have one in my stable.