How do you get a GY401 to hold like this ?

[chavar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GC6BR7A0Gc

Mine loses it on just a moderately fast backwards flight. I'm flying 50 size nitro so there are more vibrations than this electric. I was thinking I needed a better gyro, but looks like I should get more out of this gyro.

[BarracudaHockey]

I can do hurricanes and rolling tail slides with a 401 on a Raptor 50, its not the gyro its your setup.

Where do you have the limit pot, what tail blades are you running, and how much gain?

[chavar]

I have the limit very close to 100.

Tail blades are rotortech 92mm.

Gain in 75% in std mode (ie 50% of HH gain). I get occasional tail wag at higher gains.

[wingtip]

Sounds like a setup issue... always setup the servo and linkage as best as you can (90), and trim with the linkage, not the trims. Do this on the bench with the servo plugged directly into the rx, bypassing the gyro to get everything "90" etc.... then plug in the gyro and do your first hovers in std, adjusting the LINKAGE to fine tune it. once you get it as close as you can mechanically, then flip to hh and trim with the radio trims... once you get the procedure down you can usually get it close enough off the bench it should take 0-3 clicks of trim to get the rudder where you want it... any more than that and i'd be going back through the mechanical setup again and get the linkage adjusted better in std...

[jazzy]

Not sure if you guys are aware, But the 401 when flown in H/H mode and then flown aggresivley will default to NON H/H mode. Obviously there is nothing to beat getting the mechanical linkages set correctly. I use one of these on a Raptor 30 and knowing it's limitations has never caused me a problem.
I'm off flying yall.

[caseyjholmes]

The 401 is awesome. I can get that thing to work wonders.
If I'm having a problem with any heli tail, my go to gyro is the 401. Old reliable!

I have been recently playing with Align new gyro, mini G and the new Futaba 520 gyro.
They kinda feel different if you ask me than a 401 but I need more time on all of them.

At least with the 401 I know exactly what will happen if the tail does go out and when. Very predictable. Which I can anticipate and correct with my thumbs

[MXRACERX43]

Originally Posted by wingtip

Sounds like a setup issue... always setup the servo and linkage as best as you can (90), and trim with the linkage, not the trims. Do this on the bench with the servo plugged directly into the rx, bypassing the gyro to get everything "90" etc.... then plug in the gyro and do your first hovers in std, adjusting the LINKAGE to fine tune it. once you get it as close as you can mechanically, then flip to hh and trim with the radio trims... once you get the procedure down you can usually get it close enough off the bench it should take 0-3 clicks of trim to get the rudder where you want it... any more than that and i'd be going back through the mechanical setup again and get the linkage adjusted better in std...

Do you mean subtrim? Because you don't want to use the trim buttons to correct a drift problem. When you cycle the gyro on off it just sees the trim adjustment as the new center.

Originally Posted by jazzy

Not sure if you guys are aware, But the 401 when flown in H/H mode and then flown aggresivley will default to NON H/H mode. Obviously there is nothing to beat getting the mechanical linkages set correctly. I use one of these on a Raptor 30 and knowing it's limitations has never caused me a problem.
I'm off flying yall.

I have never seen this, I have seen some guys put in some pretty agresive flights with a 401 and it always stayed in HH.

Originally Posted by caseyjholmes

The 401 is awesome. I can get that thing to work wonders.
If I'm having a problem with any heli tail, my go to gyro is the 401. Old reliable!

I have been recently playing with Align new gyro, mini G and the new Futaba 520 gyro.
They kinda feel different if you ask me than a 401 but I need more time on all of them.

At least with the 401 I know exactly what will happen if the tail does go out and when. Very predictable. Which I can anticipate and correct with my thumbs

Exactly, the 401 is a great gyro. I was having problem with the tail on my 600n, a few people told me to replace the 401 with a "modern gyro" funny because most pilots can't outfly the 401's capability but just jump on the bandwagon. It does have it's limits compared to other gyros but as BH stated when setup correctly it is more than capable.

[chavar]

Thanks for all the responses. Though I haven't got any pointers as to what could be wrong with my setup, it is clear that I need to get more out of this gyro. I plan to try out a few things.

I have been running the engine a tad rich, leaning it would should reduce vibrations and hopefully this will allow me to use a higher gain.

Also I am going to try as high gain as possible on rate mode. I hadn't bothered much with this mode other than setting it up to hold steady. It does blow a bit when I do hard climbs or stops in rate mode.

Also will try removing a velcro strap I have over the gyro. I have kept it loose, just enough to hold the gyro in case of a double sided tape failure. But may be this setup is not damping the vibrations enough.

[caseyjholmes]

Indeed,
try removing the strap.
When you mount the tape, use alcohol on all surfaces tape will mount to to be sure you have a solid stick and the gyro shouldn't pop off.

I had a strap on my 520 today when I broke in my trex 700. Ended up removing it because the airframe does vibrate like crazy. I could see the light on the 520 going back and fourth so I took the strap off and it was much better.

I was also told today that tuning the engine will make it vibrate less as you describe above.

Good luck. The 401 is a good gyro and I trust it in any heli more than any other gyro.. that is until I have more time on my 520 to decide how I like it

[RCSavager]

Here's a wild one for you edumicated fellas on the 401. I'm still running it on the 450 but moved to Spartan for the 500 and 600. Anyway, sitting on the table in HH it will drift the tail slowly all by itself. Switching to rate will stop it and center it but when flipped back to HH it starts to slowly drift again. This is without the heli running, after triple-flipping the mode to reset and after pluging in the system several times. Basically, it's drifting when NOT in flight or even rotating the head. Any ideas on that one? This is why I pulled the 401 off my 500 and never even thought about it on the 600. Now I'm about to pull it off the 450 too. I'm open to all ideas but when it's not even flying and it drifts indicates a clear issue I don't seem to understand. Gain is 30 on my Futaba running a Hitec 5084.

[MavriC]

Originally Posted by RCSavager

Here's a wild one for you edumicated fellas on the 401. I'm still running it on the 450 but moved to Spartan for the 500 and 600. Anyway, sitting on the table in HH it will drift the tail slowly all by itself. Switching to rate will stop it and center it but when flipped back to HH it starts to slowly drift again. This is without the heli running, after triple-flipping the mode to reset and after pluging in the system several times. Basically, it's drifting when NOT in flight or even rotating the head. Any ideas on that one? This is why I pulled the 401 off my 500 and never even thought about it on the 600. Now I'm about to pull it off the 450 too. I'm open to all ideas but when it's not even flying and it drifts indicates a clear issue I don't seem to understand. Gain is 30 on my Futaba running a Hitec 5084.

Running Spektrum receiver?

Is so, rebind, and all will be fine.

I saw this on my buddies 500ESP with a Spartan... same thing... I just did a rebind for him, and the drifting, while sitting still in HH mode, went away.

ANY changes to a Spektrum system that is done after a prior binding, could cause slow initializing too. It's a good practice to just rebind after messing about.

If you're running Futaba, I'm not so sure, but I saw the EXACT problem you are describing, with a JR X9303 and a Spartan. Tail blades drifting, Heli off, flip in Rate... perfect... HH and drifting. I did a rebind, all better!

Hope that helps!

Rick.

[RCSavager]

As stated in my post and in my signature, this is on my Futaba 7C radio. No offense but with all that rebind every time you look at it, I wouldn't fly Spektrum if you gave me the thing for free. Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program. Nope, not using Spektrum stuff.

[BarracudaHockey]

Originally Posted by jazzy

Not sure if you guys are aware, But the 401 when flown in H/H mode and then flown aggresivley will default to NON H/H mode.

That is just flat out incorrect.

[MavriC]

Originally Posted by RCSavager

As stated in my post and in my signature, this is on my Futaba 7C radio. No offense but with all that rebind every time you look at it, I wouldn't fly Spektrum if you gave me the thing for free. Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program. Nope, not using Spektrum stuff.

No offense taken.

How ever, I fly Synth PCM personally.

Signatures, I've seen MANY outdated, so rarely look at them.

Sorry for "trying to help" RCSavager. I'll know better next time with you.

Good luck!

[MavriC]

Originally Posted by jazzy

Not sure if you guys are aware, But the 401 when flown in H/H mode and then flown aggresivley will default to NON H/H mode.

I've yet to see my GY401 switch over to Rate Mode on it's own.

Can you explain how this happens to your's? IF this is happening, you must have a bum gyro then.

[RCSavager]

Originally Posted by MavriC

No offense taken.

How ever, I fly Synth PCM personally.

Signatures, I've seen MANY outdated, so rarely look at them.

Sorry for "trying to help" RCSavager. I'll know better next time with you.

Good luck!

Aww come on Mav, I was saying it lightly man. I guess my lame attempt at humor fell flat. I wasn't meaning to bite the hand that feeds me really. Sorry if I offended with the way I posted. I'm all about friendship and comradeship so let's put my post behind us and move forward. So it's said Mav, "sorry bro".

Anyway, anybody have an idea why the tail servo would drift just sitting on the table with the heli not running. I've played with it for 15 minutes switching back and forth from HH to rate, resetting the gyro, repowering everything.... pretty much everything I can think of. I'd really like to not have to toss out a perfectly good gyro if it's something I'm doing but that same drift exists while flying it which is what put me on the path to discovering this drift with it on the bench. Any and all help is appreciated. I promise not to cut bad jokes or offhand comments again in the thread.

[MavriC]

No problem.

I'm really not sure as to why that would happen... Hmmm...

A good friend of mine just purchased a Futaba 10C and is running a 401 in his 450SE V2.

I'll see if I can figure something out for you this week. Maybe play with settings, or try to emulate your condition?

Do you have any sub-trim? I have seen "some" servos wonder with sub-trim. Just a guess here though.

We'll get to the bottom of this.

Rick.

[RCSavager]

No sub-trim in rudder, center at 90D. Noteworthy might be that it's in DS mode running a Hitec HSG-5084MG tail. Lipos are Zippy-H 2200 30Cs and TP 2200 25Cs. ESC is a new Hacker X-40 and the motor is a new A20-6XL 8-pole. I went to go beat on the new setup and the tail kept drifting on it. I brought it in, went through it with a fine tooth comb and then took it out the next day. The woman put two packs through it and complained about the tail. I dropped in a fresh ThunderPower pack and did some pumps, etc. I didn't trust it so much so nothing special but a good review on the Hacker setup no doubt.
You can see the tail constantly drifting in the vid. HD if you click into YouTube.

[MavriC]

You did the quick "3 flips" to "teach" the 401 it's new "home" I think you said?

It should blink after you do it, to confirm a learn.

Try setting it up to hover mechanically perfect in Rate Mode, say for Norm, then flick up into Stn-1 or Stn-2 for HH Mode. Just make sure you arm the gyro in HH Mode. You probably have done all of this already, but if not, give that a try.

Then there is the obvious things...

Don't move the Heli upon power up?
Gyro mounted properly, not loose?
Something loose in the rods and/or tail?

Heli has a ghost? Just kidding.

Rick.

[RCSavager]

Yup, all been done. Like I said before, it's drifting sitting on the table without spooling up. I fire the system up and it starts to drift. As of this morning it's now become intermittent. I just grabbed it and fooled with it for a bit and what do ya know the tail isn't moving while it's sitting on the table. I'm gonna look at the wires and see if maybe I'm getting some feedback through something. All the servo wires are away from the ESC wire but maybe I'm getting some flack between the servo wires.

End result is that it's not doing it now but did it all weekend throughout 6 packs. Weird