Phasing question

[nwmtech]

Wow, happened to stumble upon this and OMG I can't believe I didn't hear of this earlier. I've been fighting wicked left drifting elevator tic tocs for about a month now, a pretty decent left roll in fast backwards elevator maneuvers, and a decent left roll in large loops. I've always just compensated for it after quadruple checking my swash leveling at all pitch inputs but as my flying has gotten more aggressive this has become a lot more difficult to do. This is awesome that there's a way to fix it and that I now understand the cause. It also explains why a recent blade swap on my Fury has given some really weird elevator reactions in a rolling tail down slide. I about crapped my pants the first time it did it because I've gotten so comfortable doing them with that heli that it was very unexpected. Now I'm super stoked to head out and fly with some mixing in there tomorrow. Thanks for all the input in this thread everyone.

[petson]

Im having problem with phasing to on the esp, but my TX(futaba 6ex) dont support mixing i heli mode only in airplane.....there must be an adjustable washout-base i can use from another heli brand, logo400 or outrage maybe??? any idea??

[bwoollia]

Okay, here are some photos comparing the HobbyKing HK 500 metal washout arms to Flasher 500 arms (the Align are identical, I didn't unmount them from the helicopter). The HK arms are on the left, Flasher on the right.

The As you can clearly see, replacing your Align washout arms with HK ones (or perhaps other brands) will not only change your phasing, but the pitch range of the head will change as well.

I apologize for the quality of the photos, I didn't have any graph paper handy and the parts aren't perfectly lined up, but it is still very clear from these photos that the HK parts are not a drop-in replacement for stock Align (or Flasher) parts. If you are following this thread and are using these parts, you may have found your solution.

[Cullen Colapietro]

So, in short, stick with stock parts or go with the HK arms? I'm using stock parts and having issues and it seems like if I used the HK arms, my issues might get worse?

Cullen

[bwoollia]

I suppose that the HK arms may improve your phasing if it is less than 90 degrees (pitching up results in a roll right), however I think they look a little too flimsy to use. If your problems started after using these parts, the solution may be to return to the originals.

[michael503]

Thanks for all of the info on this thread, after some research I was able to dial out mine.

I'm running KBDD paddles (forward hole) on a 400mm flybar and it seemed to induce some phasing, which I had been chasing as a tail hold issue. I mixed in 5% in the DX7 and that cured it.

Just a point, if you want to induce phasing in Phoenix and see what it looks like, mix in some aileron with elevator and some elevator with aileron in your TX and fly it in the sim. This can also tell you which way to mix it ( Ail > + or - elev)
The sim is a little less sensitive than my 500, but your mileage may vary.

[morebeer]

Don't ask why I'm looking at the Bergen Intrepid manual, but I found the section where he describes using different radius arms to achieve different cyclic action.

Check out pages 83 and 84 the following link
http://bergenrc.com/manuals/INTREPIDGASEB.pdf

It instantly reminded me of the video Finless posted on page 3 in this thread.

p.s. sorry if this is a dead horse I'm beating, all this stuff is news to a noobie!!

[Tim Lillig]

This thread is fantastic. I've had issues with my 500 drifting/rolling left during stationary back flips. It's been driving me nuts - but then I found this thread. I've now dialed in -5 Aileron to back Elevator on my DX7 and it's much, much better. I also added +1 to forward Elevator for stationary forward flips. I know that the mixing on the DX7 is linear but I noticed no ill effects during normal flight. Once again thank you Helifreak

[SHARKGR]

Hi guys,im a bit confused,i know u have some phsing but cant determine how much and where.
ive tried long fast climb outs,no phasing
but at fast falls,it seems to lean on the right!
tried FFF no interactions
backwards fast i dont quite remember xD

i also caught my self putting left inputs when fliping to the front consistently to keep it level.......
so seems like only the negative pitching gives me some left ail? or am i talking %$# xD

[bwoollia]

Originally Posted by SHARKGR

Hi guys,im a bit confused,i know u have some phsing but cant determine how much and where.
ive tried long fast climb outs,no phasing
but at fast falls,it seems to lean on the right!
tried FFF no interactions
backwards fast i dont quite remember xD

i also caught my self putting right inputs when fliping to the front consistently to keep it level.......
so seems like only the negative pitching gives me some left ail? or am i talking %$# xD

Phasing shows up as an interaction between roll and pitch - long fast climb outs and descents will not show phasing issues. If you're getting roll or pitch during climbouts or descents it will likely be a swashplate interaction that can be fixed with a swashplate leveller.

If you have phasing, flips and rolls will be off axis.

[SHARKGR]

aha,so its only interaction from cyclic to collective pitch? the opposite is not phasing, right?
checked me rhead, seems to have no phasing at all

[bad007]

Crashed my 500 last week, for a year during flight prechecks ,phasing is one of the things that I always checked, always right on since the original build but after the build this week the antirotation bracket held the pin on the swash off and totally missaligned if you looked down from the top. It used to line up centered with the top bearing of the front tail drive assy in the boom block and always had straight backflips and tic tocs with no correction required. Some how the antirotation bracket got distorted, I basically filed some material off the one side and shimmed it over, probably only .005 of an inch but it made a world of differance. On the 450s prior to the V3 with upgraded washout arms and radius arms when first built the phasing was on but over time they seem to creep off so I simply twist the washout arms to bring them back in making sure to adjust equally so the radius arms don't bind when reattatched to the swash. On the V3 sport and pro if they go out the arm has gotten bent or twisted

[bwoollia]

Originally Posted by SHARKGR

aha,so its only interaction from cyclic to collective pitch? the opposite is not phasing, right?
checked me rhead, seems to have no phasing at all

Phasing is experienced as cyclic to cyclic interaction. Pitch (elevator) to roll and the reverse.

[SHARKGR]

hmm thanks a lot,i dont think i have elev to ail interactions..maybe its a trim problem wich cant be seen in hover cause it counteracts the side force of the tail...
thanks pal!