Lockout/Brownout Problems - Static is a #1 issue

[tkbr0wn]

Originally Posted by dieselracer

NO the area where the bearing set are not annodized. YOu just need to sand the part where the two side pieces mean the boom clamp. And where the boom clamp meets the boom. you also need to sand the Boom.

That is good to know. I was thinking I was gonna have to pull the bearing when I finnally got around to doing it.

Thanks!

[chevy]

Originally Posted by WayneBrown

Off Topic, but I gotta ask: How's it feel to be paying beta testers? I know I was highly P-O'd with the 450's and the 600N's..

Well when I went to purchase it I knew I would be a beta tester...........
mate it feels so good.............because I got one.

[Rototerrier]

<-- GF
Complete shut down from 10 foot hover. Everything was back up and running as normal when I picked it up. I have contributed to this thread several times, read thru for more details. I completed the grounding mods yesterday morning and have run 5 packs thru it so far without issue. But I am so paranoid at this point that I also dust it with static spray before every flight as well. So I will never really know if the grounding mods work since I am throwing everything at it hoping something will stick - pardon the pun.

[Finless]

John, you gotta read through the threads man....
MOST people have solved their problems by grounding the boom and tail pulleys. While we have heard of a few people still having a problem after grounding, we "question" their grounding procedure and never got a clear response. But for the people that have shared reliably, it appears pretty certain this has fixed the issues.

If your sitting around waiting for "the final word" I think you will be forever waiting. Just do what many here have said to do and go for it.

I am standing by the static thing as the issue 100%! Too many people have now proved it including companies like G-Force. Many have "shown" that once they made the mods they stopped having issues.

I don;t know what else to tell you at this point and I don;t think your going to get a "sure fire answer". The data hear and what people have shared is about as sure fire as it is going to get.

Bob

[mk1spitfire]

Can you damage the battery if the satic charge is positive when connecting to the neg ESC??

I don't know if the static is neg charged or positive charged?

[drdot]

fwiw..

Bob and others...Understand about the grounding issue...Don't beleve static is the root cause as it relates to the Spektrum radio issues...I'm nervous about grounding straps due to my very poor experience with the Vigor....I'm hoping a better solution will be forthcoming from Spektrum AND Futaba...(see my post About the 450/FASST..

JOhn.

[widower]

The idea is when you connect neg of the esc, then the static buildup, whether neg or pos will be coupled to the esc. So the static source and esc will be at the same voltage. Therefore, the static voltage won't want to 'jump' since it can't find anywhere with a large enough voltage diff. Relative to ground (earth), a flying bird may have a very high pos or neg static voltage, but the gnded esc will be at the same pos or neg level as the static generator if all is grounded properly.

[JodyJ]

I just installed the metal tail box and grounded the tailboom box/pulleys to the frame using this method (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=59035&page=2 post #11). With that configuration I used an ohm meter to test and I got nothing. So with the metal tail box apart I sanded down the end of the tailboom and the inside of the metal tail box. Put it together and I was able to get a reading from where I grounded the wire up front and the tail shaft.

Sorry if this is a repost.

Jody J.

[Finless]

Originally Posted by drdot

fwiw..

Bob and others...Understand about the grounding issue...Don't beleve static is the root cause as it relates to the Spektrum radio issues...I'm nervous about grounding straps due to my very poor experience with the Vigor....I'm hoping a better solution will be forthcoming from Spektrum AND Futaba...(see my post About the 450/FASST..

JOhn.

Well OK don'y believe in it! All I gotta say JOhn is it is REAL......

Bob

[Naviso]

Originally Posted by BlackTitanium

The CF frame is grounded to the ESC negative wire at the motor mount.
You could then attach the tail boom ground wire to any part of the CF frame.
I prefer to mount the tail boom ground strap on the motor mount also.

First of all, thanks for all the info in this forum, apecially FIREUP with his videos.

Yesterday i started grounding the boom as shown in the picture above.

When i checked the continuity, a found out, there is no continuity between the tail rotor shaft and the outer race of the bearing.

The way it is shown in the picture, did not ground the shaft, only the outer bearing race.

I installed a thin wire, spring loaded , connecting in the little hole inside the tail rotor shaft.
That works (i will post a pic later, when i am at Home.)

That means the metall main shaft bearing blocks will not ground the main shaft, right ?????

Thanks again

Thomas

[c53204]

My input.....

Surely there are other 'vehicles' that have carbon fibre, motors, static, etc, etc AND also have electronics in them, are these all affected?

What about CF light aircraft and the new glass cockpits?
F1 GP cars - lot's of CF - fast moving parts and lot's of electronics - transmitted to the pits?

[raylepper]

Originally Posted by Naviso

.....When i checked the continuity, a found out, there is no continuity between the tail rotor shaft and the outer race of the bearing.

The way it is shown in the picture, did not ground the shaft, only the outer bearing race.

I had the same problem. All I could figure was that during assembly I had used loctite between the shaft and the inner race of the bearings. It worked well on the left side bearing, completely insulating (electrically) the shaft from my 'ground-wire' installed under the bearing.

So I moved my 'ground wire' to the right side bearing and got good continuity. I think that whatever loctite I had used on that side was wiped off during assembly when I slid the two tail case halves together.

Here's a pic of my tail grounding. I used aluminum foil instead of a wire thinking I would minimize any distortion of the tail case. Seems to work.

[mk1spitfire]

All those vehicle frames are grounded. Why not same for model rc helis?

Just don't let your ANY of your exposed positive wires from servos leads(rubbing)Bat etc
touch frame or sparks will really fly and fry!

[Socal500]

See post here https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=62101&page=10

Source of static is the belt and not the tail rotor and/or tail blades. I think a belt made of different material will be a solution.

[Socal500]

I think the source is the belt and not the tail blades / rotor. The static is actually emitting from the rotor, so if anything it is discharging from there into the atmosphere.

I found this by testing on an ungrounded heli that shows heavy reading from the tail rotor and blades even turning the head slowly by hand. I removed the belt from the test and just rotated the tail rotors.. faster than I did by spinning the head and get no reading from the tail rotor. I used a string wrapped around the tailshaft, with the detector almost touching the blades, I pulled the string, much like starting a lawn mower, and this generated quite a bit of tail rotor speed, much much more than I could do turning the head by hand. I never could get detection.

After this, with the belt out of the boom, I sprayed the belt then wiped off any excess. Reassembled and tested again. No reading on the tail rotor blades. I think that definitely shows the belt is the source of the static generation and not the tail rotor.


So this means we might add a new fix to the list... once available I believe a belt of different material will solve the problem without any grounding.

[fireup]

Originally Posted by Naviso

When i checked the continuity, a found out, there is no continuity between the tail rotor shaft and the outer race of the bearing.

The way it is shown in the picture, did not ground the shaft, only the outer bearing race.

I've notice the same time. It seems you don't need a 100% continuity from boom to the inner race. Continuity between the boom and outer race will still bleed off the charge stored in the boom. I will do a another test on effectiveness between grounding to the shaft vs. grounding to the outer race only when I get my meter in.

[hrosee]

I am a believer!!

I just did the mod to ground the bearings, front and rear, to the boom and then to the motor mount along with the ESC ground mod. All static is gone except at the main gear.

I tested my 450 SE and it only has static reading with my probe at the main gear. Since this is very low level and has never caused me a problem on the 450 and I am not going to worry about it on the 500.

I really don't care for the mod because the wire cuts so easily on the rear tail bearing. I had to try a couple of times to get the wire in there without cutting the wire. The front bearing has more room so this is not a problem there.

The best bet may be to get the metal tail and still do the from mod. It would be nice if Align would come out with a metal frfom block also and that would elimate that point also.

For now I will carry my probe with me and check the 500 before I fly.

[Socal500]

Heres the video of the test I conducted that I believe shows the belt is the source of the static. I think that a belt of different material will also be an answer to the problem without any additional mods. Question is will a belt ever be available.

http://www.socalsurfs.com/trex500/nostaticdisc.wmv

I think you will still get a reading at higher RPM but I believe these probes in general are misleading. What is actually being picked up?

Fireup.. when is that meter due? Thats going to be very interesting to see what levels are actually being generated.

[Finless]

Nice test Shawn! Makes perfect sense.... Go look up "Saint Elmo's fire" and how sailboats bleed off static from the top of the mast. Many boaters actually put a device on the top of the mast to force static bleed off. Similar to what G-force is doing.

So the tail rotor is emitting it like you say and that makes prefect sense to me.

FYI what did you lube the belt with?

Bob

[Socal500]

Well just to test.. I used WD-40 but Im going to try and find some silicone spray to use to to make things run smoother, not for the static reasone. I still believe grounding is the best solution right now.

I can get detection on the blades at higher RPM but I dont think its generating static. Its been shown that grouding will get no reading but I think thats because instead of emitting out throught the tail rotor, its going to the neg of esc.