I'm Lacking Protos Power

[eltreato]

Hi Guys,

This past fall I rescued a flybarred Protos 500 off Craigslist. I purchased it from a planker who had it sitting on CL all summer long with no bites. He built it himself, hovered it in his backyard, had a couple blade strikes and decided to sell it. I purchased it with only the stock 880kv motor and a low voltage Futaba tail servo. I then put got some Turnigy Rotorstar servos, a 90 amp YEP ESC the FBL kit, and a Vbar gyro. I went over the build fairly closely and found that all in all it was in very good condition.

So here's the thing, I have been running it at about 85% throttle ungoverned in IU. Power is alright, but a bit disappointing, nothing close to me 450x on 3s with an aftermarket cheapo Turnigy motor. I know that this heli is meant to be a beast, but I'm just not seeing it. I bumped up to 90% but had a couple brownouts, but even then the power wasn't nuts. Since going back to 85% and using some silicone spray, the brownouts haven't recurred. If it ever stops raining here I plan to get it back up to 90% to see if I can reproduce the brownouts in fast piros and pitch pumps as I'm not 100% certain whether they're BEC or static-related.

So I realize I'm not running 100% power, but this thing just seems a bit underwhelming it the power department, I know it should be more punchy than it is, based on all the reports here from trusted forum members and videos I've seen.

I'm running a 15T pinion I believe (I need to confirm this) with what seems like reasonable belt tension. I only have one battery, it's a used 2600mah 6s 35C Hyperion that seems to charge and balance just fine, and I'm running +/-12 degrees of main rotor pitch.

I welcome any suggestions people may have for getting this thing the power it's supposed to have.

Thanks!

[MSH-Direct]

ESC end points not programmed correctly?

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by MSH-Direct

ESC end points not programmed correctly?

+1

And don't be afraid to use governor. This heli design running stock motor NEEDS governor. What happens is that with the design of running OWBs inside pinion, the pinion diameter can only get so small. Without going super size with the main pulley, gearing is limited so that motor has to run slow and that means it has to run 10-pole motor where comparable helis run 6. Unfortunately, even with high pole-count motor it doesn't change the fact that the motor runs slow which means it can run out of efficient range easy. That's why it needs not just a governor but one with good gains to prevent motor from dropping too much speed.

[eltreato]

Great advice, thanks guys, I'll work on getting the governor setup. I'll also review my end point setups.

[BHChieftain]

Look up some posts on Gov Store mode and Mr. Mel (who has a setup vid for Gov Store mode). Don't use regular Gov mode.

Chief

[crickr1]

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

Look up some posts on Gov Store mode and Mr. Mel (who has a setup vid for Gov Store mode). Don't use regular Gov mode.

Chief

Gov store on YGE way to go
heres Mr Mels setup

YGE Programming Governor Store (11 min 21 sec)

[eltreato]

Originally Posted by crickr1

Gov store on YGE way to go
heres Mr Mels setup
YGE Programming Governor Store - YouTube

Haha thanks, that's the same video I've got on my "Watch Later" list for tonight!

[crickr1]

Originally Posted by eltreato

Haha thanks, that's the same video I've got on my "Watch Later" list for tonight!

[eltreato]

Well I got it in the air today with gov. store configured. To be honest I didn't notice any difference in power. I'm going to play with my blade pitch a bit. I looked at the pinion closely and it turns out it's only a 14T not a 15T, so I plan to do a swap to change that.

[MSH-Direct]

15t will require a different shaft adapter.
If your 14t is running the long shaft you will also need to swap shafts.

[eltreato]

Originally Posted by MSH-Direct

15t will require a different shaft adapter.
If your 14t is running the long shaft you will also need to swap shafts.

This is good info thanks, I will need to look into it.

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by eltreato

I looked at the pinion closely and it turns out it's only a 14T not a 15T, so I plan to do a swap to change that.

So no 3rd-bearing support with 14T pinion and 4mm shaft adapter?

You're not lacking power you're lacking HS. With 14T it doesn't have enough HS headroom to hold 2750 HS under heavy load. With 14T and non-stretch I would set 2600HS or lower and that should be still more than enough for mild 3D.

[eltreato]

Originally Posted by DoubleCH

So no 3rd-bearing support with 14T pinion and 4mm shaft adapter?

You're not lacking power you're lacking HS. With 14T it doesn't have enough HS headroom to hold 2750 HS under heavy load. With 14T and non-stretch I would set 2600HS or lower and that should be still more than enough for mild 3D.

To answer your question about the third-bearing support and 4mm shaft adapter, at this point I don't know. Since I bought it used and was comfortable with the previous owner's assembly skills I haven't pulled the motor yet to look at it. He did, however, have several spare pinions with different tooth counts implying that perhaps they could be swapped out with ease.

I haven't tac'ed my headspeed, though mild 3d isn't a problem, I just feel like it's a bit of a letdown in its current state, especially after flying it back to back with my other helis.

Thansk!

[DoubleCH]

You don't need to pull the motor to count teeth and see if 3rd bearing is there. If you run 14T or smaller it's 4mm shaft (or adapter). If previous owner also runs 15T he needs to change to 6mm shaft adapter so it's not just a pinion swap.

Evidently and not to my surprise 4mm shaft (or adapter) without 3rd bearing support is disaster waiting to happen.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...73#post6281473

Doesn't matter if it's stretch or not. Common misconception associates 3rd bearing support with stretch. In reality it's the 4mm soft skinny shaft that needs 3rd support.

Maybe it's your setup or your blades or your batteries. What blades and batteries?

This was how mine flew with 14T and 430mm blades (waiting for my 470mm blades in-transit) at only 2440rpm HS and I wasn't even pushing it.

My Stretched Protos with Revolution FB 430mm Blades (4 min 14 sec)

Here's one with higher HS (maybe 2600) with a stronger pack but still a tamed-down governor setup and 430mm blades.

My Protos with Wild Scorpion 45C 3500 Pack (5 min 39 sec)

Of course with 470mm blades this is how it flies. Nowhere near disappointing power.

My Stretched Protos Tamed-down FBL settings for TGY-S306Gs (4 min 2 sec)

[babyuh1]

I've read on here that the YEP esc can have problems with the bec under high current draw so that might be causing your brown outs.
Also, I've been running the small motor shaft and a fourteen tooth pinion with no extra support on my heli for a couple of years now with no problem. I don't have a very hot setup and don't beat on my heli though.

[eltreato]

Great info guys thank you both! I will post up after I have a chance to find out whether I have the bearing support or not.

[eltreato]

Originally Posted by eltreato

Great info guys thank you both! I will post up after I have a chance to find out whether I have the bearing support or not.

Hi DoubleCH and everyone else. I had a look at my 14T Protos last night, it does not appear to have a 3rd bearing block so my understanding is that I will need the following:

-third bearing block MSH51334
-15T pinion MSH51013

It also appears that with my current 14T pinion there is an MSH Motor Adapter 4mm (MSH51098) in use. With the 15T will I need to buy some other adapter or will the 15T fit straight on to the motor's shaft as is without an adapter? I am hoping to put in an order with Heliproshop later this week and would hate to find out I'm missing a piece when I place the order.

Thanks in advance for answering my questions, I probably wouldn't be asking so many had I built this kit up myself

Thanks!

[MSH-Direct]

You will need pinion adapter MSH51007 for the 15t and up pinions and the motor shaft support MSH51326 is only used for the 14-13-12 pinions.

The support you have listed is the CNC upgrade for the main shaft not the motor shaft. The motor shaft support is a v shaped CNC piece that rests above the motor and holds the top of the motor shaft in place for the smaller pinions. If you have it installed you cannot miss it.

[eltreato]

Originally Posted by MSH-Direct

You will need pinion adapter MSH1007 for the 15t and up pinions and the motor shaft support MSH51326 is only used for the 14-13-12 pinions.

The support you have listed is the CNC upgrade for the main shaft not the motor shaft. The motor shaft support is a v shaped CNC piece that rests above the motor and holds the top of the motor shaft in place for the smaller pinions. If you have it installed you cannot miss it.

Alright thanks I found a msh41007 I will order one of those along with the 15T pinion. I'll also check for this v-shaped piece. I don't suppose you know that the part number is on it?

Cheers!

[MSH-Direct]

Pretty sure I know the numbers
51007 is the shaft adapter
51326 is the motor shaft support.

Sorry, at my day job typing on the phone