Dahl and competing. The state of competition in the US

[GJacksonF3N]

I was too busy practicing to watch Rain Man.
Lol

[newbheliusr]

A true savant, or idiot savant doesn't have to work at it. It's natural.


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[pitounet]

I started flying helicopters at a little more than 30 years old. I'm a very solid 3D pilot and a fast learner too. I was already doing competition when a young guy that was about 13 showed at a park where use to fly during week days to practice wih my 450. He already flew well with his 450 but he didn't know how to do chaos. He looked my flight and complimemented my flying. He was amazed because he thought this maneuver was almost impossible. Guess what, two or three weeks after I see this young boy executing some chaos. Since he saw they were possible, he practiced them.
Another event that stunned me is when he practiced for the 3d masters. One year a mind blowing maneuver namely the koob appeared in the figure list. He mastered it in less than 4 months. Learning the koob foces you to learn all piroloop inverted or not in reversal or not in all directions + all the pirofunnels inverted or not reversed or not. It is really much much harder than any simple pirouetting move with reversal.
Often the program changes and if you want to stay competitive you need to learn new maneuvers, because some of the ones you know will disappear and others will loose some points in their coef. This means that you nut be able to master new maneuvers in a couple of months. It just execute them, but execute them to perfection.
Then you've got the free flights and free music flight. For these you'd better be really quick and have good reflexes.
All above is what you need to be able to compete with young people. I guarantee you that if they are motivated they will do it better than you n

[maarset]

Originally Posted by newbheliusr

A true savant, or idiot savant doesn't have to work at it. It's natural.


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LOL!

[sl4ppy]

Originally Posted by newbheliusr

A true savant, or idiot savant doesn't have to work at it. It's natural.


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Lol.. Yes, I saw Rainman...

What was his skill? A perfect memory? I guess you could call that a skill...

Rainman was loosely based on the real life Kim Peek... Kim was born without a corpus callosum which allowed/required his brain to operate in a functionally different manner than other human beings. His adult fluid reasoning ability and verbal comprehension skills were on par with a child of 5, and he could barely understand the meaning in proverbs or metaphors. He also suffered deficits in the area of self-care: he couldn’t dress himself or brush his teeth without assistance.

I don't think we can include people who are physically divergent from the majority of humans in our discussion of skill potential/ability. Much the same way you wouldn't compare the swimming skill of someone with webbed fingers with someone who didn't have webbed fingers...

edit:
I should point out that people like Stephen Wiltshire, an incredibly gifted savant artist, also had to work at it. He was mute as a child due to autism, so to communicate he drew everything constantly; ravenously. As a consequence his artistic ability got better and better VERY quickly and now he has the incredible talent he has where he can recreate an entire city-scape in perfect detail from memory. But he didn't get to today's skill on day one, he got there because he drew every minute of every day for his entire life as a matter of necessity.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelhe...e-made-it-big/

For Stephen, speaking didn’t come naturally but instead of brooding over his inability to communicate verbally, he found an alternative way to relate to the world and honed those skills. “Taking art from a hobby to a career was never a decision or a choice for Stephen,” Annette shared. It was intuitive.

Many of us have childhood interests that we ditch in favor of more socially acceptable, practical or lucrative options. Stephen never let questions such as, “Am I good enough?” or “Can I make a living as an artist?” stop him from turning his passion into a career. He is living proof that if you enjoy doing something, you’ll be more inclined to work at improving your skills and rise to the top in a respective industry. He says that he finds his job emotionally fulfilling; isn’t that the ultimate achievement?

[newbheliusr]

But he could count like mofo


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[GJacksonF3N]

I guess the point being made is that you can't take the movie Rainman too literally. There are some drummers who are naturals. When I was the same age as they were I had to work twice as hard to play at their level. But as mentioned earlier, they sort of burned out and i kept going. Now I am in a different league then they are and it is my career. But my experiences will be different than yours, and I can only speak from my experiences.

Back to the topic. I spoke with Bert about the US needing a regional competition and he was approached by companies before, but it requires so much time and money. The guy over Helimasters makes an enormous amount of money for that event. The US doesn't want someone to profit at all. I just wish our sector of the hobby had more competitive type events like RC racing. But in the meantime I will just enjoy flying because it is fun and I am in competition with myself to learn more and fly better.

[mahbouni]

Originally Posted by inner3

I guess the point being made is that you can't take the movie Rainman too literally. There are some drummers who are naturals. When I was the same age as they were I had to work twice as hard to play at their level. But as mentioned earlier, they sort of burned out and i kept going. Now I am in a different league then they are and it is my career. But my experiences will be different than yours, and I can only speak from my experiences.

Back to the topic. I spoke with Bert about the US needing a regional competition and he was approached by companies before, but it requires so much time and money. The guy over Helimasters makes an enormous amount of money for that event. The US doesn't want someone to profit at all. I just wish our sector of the hobby had more competitive type events like RC racing. But in the meantime I will just enjoy flying because it is fun and I am in competition with myself to learn more and fly better.

One of the clubs I fly at in the UK (Milton Keynes Helicopter Club) hosts an annual event called Grass Roots. It's designed as an entry level competition for people getting into 3D. There is a set maneuvers and a freestyle round. It's not run at a profit and doesn't really cost a fortune to operate. It's just a bit of fun for everyone but many of the pilots pick up sponsorship and go on to become great.. I know the USA is so much bigger than the UK and 1 grassroots competition would probably be too far away for a lot of people but perhaps if 1 club in every state could host something like that, it would breed talent that could progress to greater things.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by inner3

I guess the point being made is that you can't take the movie Rainman too literally. There are some drummers who are naturals. When I was the same age as they were I had to work twice as hard to play at their level. But as mentioned earlier, they sort of burned out and i kept going. Now I am in a different league then they are and it is my career. But my experiences will be different than yours, and I can only speak from my experiences.

Back to the topic. I spoke with Bert about the US needing a regional competition and he was approached by companies before, but it requires so much time and money. The guy over Helimasters makes an enormous amount of money for that event. The US doesn't want someone to profit at all. I just wish our sector of the hobby had more competitive type events like RC racing. But in the meantime I will just enjoy flying because it is fun and I am in competition with myself to learn more and fly better.

Totally agree. Part of the discussion in this thread was about why the USA is so far behind Europe on the competition scene. Sounds like some good insight from Bert. No money and no one motivated to make it happen. It's a niche hobby, and even the top pro's make peanuts for winning the best competitions. I think it's $5K Euros if you win Helimasters? So obviously not much commercial value in this. Even the best demo pro pilots like Bert have admitted that he could be making way more money in IT, but the heli thing is just a life style choice. Notice no kids. Can't really live that life style if you want kids in your life.

I looked through the Helimasters contestant list, and on the Advanced side, ages range from 8 to 37. Alvin Chai being the old man.

In the masters class you have Johnathan Bossion who is 30 now, and placed 5th in 2013. And probably has a legitimate chance of winning any competition he enters. He's been flying since 1995!

So there is the question of _starting_ late, and then the question of starting early and then staying competitive as you age.

Another factor - There is ZERO money in this "sport" , unlike sports like golf. So unless you work for Mikado, and have a license to fly all day long, it's really hard not to treat this as just a hobby. So if you're a 20 year old phenom, but need to go to college and then get a good paying job, chances are you won't be grinding away to stay at a top level. So you'll drop off quickly.

I suspect that if there was MONEY in heli competitions such that the top 50 guys could make a comfortable living like they do in golf we'd see a lot of very good guys in the 40's giving the guys in their 20's a run for it. But sadly with no money in it, it's doubtful you'll spend the most productive years of your life professionally working at something with no fiscal payoff. Rather it's something that (even if sponsored fully) requires quite a negative flow of cash.

[newbheliusr]

There are savants. And then there is the rest of us. I personally think kids that were good with video games. Most important the ones with the thumb sticks. Kinda pick it up easier.

I had an accident when I was 21 that cut the nerve in my right thumb. I can feel pressure. But not hot/cold or sharp/dull. But I do have full range of movement even after 8 weeks in a cast. That made it a little harder for me. But I'm getting it. From time to time my right thumb slips off the stick. So far no crashes. Lol


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[mahbouni]

Originally Posted by newbheliusr

From time to time my right thumb slips off the stick. So far no crashes. Lol

I use something like this. Your radio will have either M3 or M4 sticks so you can search for something that fits.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Secraft-RC-T...item3ce2eefaa7

[newbheliusr]

Funny enough. I have sharp pointed sticks and my thumb still slips off sometimes. Lol


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[EEngineer]

Velcro on a "thumb thimble" and stick end.

Or, how 'bout a baseball glove?....Velcro on the thumb, cut the other glove
fingers off if it's more comfortable.

Just thinking....

[Diviner]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned.

The current top pilots have one thing in common, their dad's fly and probably financed them. The learning curve is steep and difficult for a youngster to learn on their own. A typical budget is 4k even if you are sponsored. That is a lot of money for a kid. I am extremely impressed by kids who's dad didn't fly and they had to pay their own way. I know 2 competition pilots who fall into this category. I doubt if there are more than a handful in this country.

That would be a good idea for classes, silver spoon and plastic fork class

The good news is entry is now affordable (aka mcpx). The bad news is fpv and MR have supplanted mcpx's for many reasons. And there is little crossover from MR to helis.

Look for the heli competition scene in the US, and even in Europe, to weaken even further. Not to mention the heli scene overall. The sea change is well under way. Just like is was from Nitro to electric, fb to fbl. I just went to several major heli retailers sites. Not much heli stuff on their landing page promos. Gopros, phantoms, 22,000 mah batteries. Wonder where the market is?? I am surprised Mikado and Goblin haven't come out with MRs. Align is late to the game. Meanwhile, KDS can't keep Skyheros in stock. Look for FPV racing to start to take hold as it doesn't have nearly the entry difficulties as helis do. Not to mention crash costs are 1/10 the cost of heli crashes. Doom and gloom? No, just reality.

Someone mention earlier about prize money. MR's have value to businesses, helis do not. So there will be a migration path from a drone hobbyist to a drone professional.

[GJacksonF3N]

A lot of very interesting points diviner. Only thing is a lot of us will stick with helis. But I believe drones and quads might bring more people to the hobby. I have a quad but hardly fly it. Now if Amazon starts hiring people to fly their drones to deliver packages as a side job I can do that for a few extra bucks lol.

[mahbouni]

Originally Posted by Diviner

One thing that hasn't been mentioned.

https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=34

[GJacksonF3N]

I mentioned something along those lines as well concerning help with builds and not as afraid of crashing (not worried about buying new parts, repair time because they have other helis, etc.) That is the one major difference between the young pilots and everyone else with careers outside of the hobby.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by inner3

I mentioned something along those lines as well concerning help with builds and not as afraid of crashing (not worried about buying new parts, repair time because they have other helis, etc.) That is the one major difference between the young pilots and everyone else with careers outside of the hobby.

I would agree with some points, but then I don't see sim flights from the old guys "flying with fear" doing anything near routines that the young pros are doing IRL. Even the known maneuvers. Try all the k10's and see how long it takes to do them with precision.

[GJacksonF3N]

I agree onthesnap, but also the other guys aren't pros so I wouldn't expect them to sim like a pro flies real life. I don't expect my drum students to play on the level of a pro drummer, but I, myself, am expected to play on par as a pro. There have been some young phenom drummers, but they eventually plateau and still haven't reached a level as someone who has done it for 40 years. Not saying they won't get to that level but it takes time. I use the professional drumming reference because I can speak from experience and it correlates because it takes coordination to play fast (unlike a track runner where they are physically gifted), hand eye coordination to sight read and play several different instruments simultaneously, but the added component of musicality/sound quality.
In the end, I'm saying that experience is a huge factor (BUT NOT THE ONLY FACTOR!) and someone who practices diligently for many years will be at a high level depending on quality and quantity of practice. I can't speak for the scientific facts of a younger person learning faster because that is true, but I'm talking about over the course of time.
This is just tone way of seeing the subject, I am not proclaiming my statement is the only true way or that I am entirely right. Just using an analogy to compare competitive flying with a subject in which I am a specialist.

[wab223]

Originally Posted by newbheliusr

It's threads like this that make me want to quit.

Its posts like yours that restore my faith in humanity while reading threads like this.