No excitement here regarding the X50?

[forvols]

Some like change, some don't. Some argue about why the X50 isn't as good as the old Raptors, others cheer it's introduction.

I don't care which side of the fence you're on, there is a vid on the otheRR forum that show Colin abusing the X50 in a manner that I've never seen from him before.

I've seen him fly in person, and in many many videos and he's a top notch pilot. Still.. the latest video of him flying the X50 is nothing short of intense! Like it or don't, I can't remember seeing any Raptor videos where the heli was being thrashed about like he's doing to the X50.

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/rr...M2010-3D01.mp4

Colin is saying about 6.2 pounds RTF less fuel. That's a huge weight difference that seems to be showing up in the form of extreme agility.

[kiwibob72]

Cool vid !!

[Ah Clem]

I think Raptors are suffering, simply because the are not "Align".

They are still very good machines (pretty hard to find a bad machine in today's market).

[Blades345]

I like the Raptors alot and thought both the ones I had flew well, but Thunder Tiger needs to step it up. Thunder Tiger needs a 500 sized machine, and a nice 550 sized heli. I feel like the are way behind the 8 ball and need to figure out something to catch up to Align, and the rest of the bigger named brands. I think TT could come up with a great looking, great flying 500 E or 550E if they really want, and no more of this crappy Innovater heli BS. That Innovater heli was a huge let down!

[johnbs8]

if im not mistaken, i thought he was using a OS55 and with the weight loss and the redesigns its gonna kill have trex owners going wow!! as far as the other sizes, doesnt matter to me much as long as they have a rockn 50 size heli a newer 90 would be nice though

[MXRACERX43]

Any replacement parts costs posted on this machine yet? TT is insane in regards to cost if it is made of Carbon fiber or aluminum.

[WessCo]

I'm excited to see one in person...and would like to have one..but they're just not out, so why get excited? I get excited if I actually get to go fly!

[vernon7026]

Jeez

that guy can fly man, wow.. Does anyone know when it will be released ?? and would it be worth buying when it is launched, or better to wait awhile ??

[Citnarf]

They better not stop making parts for the R50 when this comes out...

[alexander]

They are going to produce and continue so for both 50 models. The X50 tail boom assy will fit the R50 and there are bits that are actually better when installed on the R50. Guys may adapt the X50 rotor head to the R50. The 7mm X50 spindle and spindle bearings can be grafted to the R50 rotor head if one wanted to upgrade. The landing gear is lighter and may serve the same purpose, we have actually installed it on our 90s. The X50 is an opportunity gentlemen, one to strengthen the R50 and maybe even shed a bit of weight..

Stephen

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello,

Just wondering, if the new rotor-head is an improvement and other things are interchangeable:

- why did TT not stay with a mecanical CCPM ?
- why not improve modularity of the existing design by including for main-mast bearing blocks ?
- improve main rotor head ?
- add some features as torque-tube fir the existing desing ?

Now it’s just a me too nitro, we have the ALIGN-, Vibe50-, ELY.Q-, Compass-, Outrage V50 – design etc. .. is it about flying for a few month something new (X50) nobody else has or some real improvement when it comes to modularity and other important daily aspects ?

If someone gets a high flight level skill, he can fly whatever to get others to desire this machine.. unfortunatelly TT might have designed a nice nitro (X50) but definetly not what Raptor-connaisseurs might have liked? The new X50 might have:

- way higher kit cost (everything else then carbon and alumina is nuts)
- way higher spare costs
- way more complicated set-up (eCCPM) with interactions/ phasing
- way worse rebuilt (why servos mounted in the frames) ?

The limitation is always the pilot (mechanical set-up and flight skills) – so get an ever lighter machine and higher-displacement engine .. the skills to be trained remain the same ..

Pitty, just one more carbon-mania nitro helicopter. This way even TT admits the Raptor design to be old-fashionend instead proving other manufacturers being wrong praing eCCPM being modern ..


There will be some increased sales at the beginning, at least until the *I'm the first to own one* buyers have one, afterwards everything remains the same

The TT-management should be fired for their path - no real differentiation and even killing the succes of their older Raptors instead applying some nice evolution on their beloved Raptor-design.

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: only a mechanical CCPM-pilot (as a Raptor-pilot etc.) flying as well any eCCPM-system will be able to tell the difference ..

[forvols]

While you can make very valid points regarding the advantages of mCCPM vs eCCPM, business involves the selling of goods or services to a customer. If you're selling widgets for a particular application and the market deisres wagets (for whatever reason), then you're going to have a hard time making any money. For any company to succeed, they have to offer a product (be it goods or services) that the customers demonstrate that they want to buy.

Unfortunately, the market has bought into eCCPM, carbon fiber, and cnc aluminum. If product doesn't meet the criteria then you're going to have a difficult time making much money.

For TT to continue to exist as a major player in the rc heli market, they have to be able to produce and sell what the market demonstrates that it wants. The market wants what it wants and it often holds little regard for what works the best.

Remember VHS? Remember 8 Track cassettes (ok. many of you won't). These are just a couple of classic examples the market demanding and consuming inferior products because they didn't understand or didn't care about the truth or facts.

So, to that end... I applaud TT for at least showing up at the party with a product that appears to be able to deliver everything that the market says it wants. The part that we don't know yet is whether or not TT has the market presence to deliver this product at a price point that makes their new product not only desirable, but obtainable.

The good news is that TT has stated that they have no plans to discontinue the Titan airframe. Yes, time can change things, but if TT doesn't do something to regain some of the market, you may well see your beloved mCCPM Raptor dissappear altogether You simply cannot continue to produce a producut that the market has abandoned. Loyal Raptor fans are very much a minority and most likely not a large enough share of the market for TT to be able to continue.

So, if there is hope for the continuation of the mCCPM Raptor, it may well hinge on the success or failure of the X50.

My 2 cents - much like the US $, it's not really worth the paper (or pixels) it's printed on

[timmay]

[MXRACERX43]

How about an FBL equipped kit? I think any manufacture not offering there kits as a FBL version are making a mistake.

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello,

What market share will the new X50 catch ? This will depend as well on their pricing of kit and spares as well as the fact, that no combos (like ALIGN is doing succesfully) might be offered to the customer ..

It's all about differentiation in business and getting a valid share of the cake by doing so .. doing what all do is definetly no differentiation

So if former people buying Raptors and appreciating its advantages (part of what makes a Raptor different to the many *me-too-nitros* ) are not the target customers for a X50, who will be it then? Looking from what really would make a difference in market share for TT .. this would definetly be to get some business away from ALIGN (back) ..

As IMO TT will not sell atractive combos (X50 plus engine/muffler, servos and gyro) guess how many people will change from affordeable bling to a X50 ?

Funny how new things are anounced on the web - it's not forbidden to get peoples interest and attention .. but it's not forbidden to predict, why the X50 won't make a big difference for TT. ThunderTiger is known for:

- well made and robust fibre-reinforced helicopters (no alu-carbo-mania therefore playing in the middle-price category)
- reasonaeble priced kits and spares
- ww good spare availability
- very easy to setup, mantain and repair helicopters
- solid flight characteristica

Seems they start to change what they stand for? You don't need to be a marketer to find out or predict how this will play out

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: I'm excited about a nitro if I built it and set-it-up and I liked how it's designed .. flying it and repairing it .. will definetly tell if I'm excited or not

[jonnywoods]

i think alot of people are missing the point here. the x50 is not setting out to replace raptors and its not going to change "who tt is" its an option for people who like tt and its quality to stay with the brand they like and get there lean mean 3d machine while there at it. i like tt ive got raptors there awsome! and this new x50 is going to be awsome as well. now instead of trying to make my raptor lighter and faster i can keep it heavy tough smooth and reliable and i can have a new x50 to lay the smack down on with out having to buy an align. i dont think align has the quality that tt does and personally i dont really like the fact that when you buy an align you have to pay for all the included electronics. the align electronics work and there combo packs are great if your starting fresh but since ive got 8717's and a gy 520 sitting there this new x50 is exactly what im looking for. i think this is a great move for tt the only thing i dont like is how long it took!

[JKEP44]

Originally Posted by jonnywoods

i dont think align has the quality that tt does and personally i dont really like the fact that when you buy an align you have to pay for all the included electronics. the align electronics work and there combo packs are great if your starting fresh but since ive got 8717's and a gy 520 sitting there this new x50 is exactly what im looking for.

I have both align and TT helicopters and when properly assembled neither require much maintenance. What align model are you required to purchase electronics with as the only option?

[JKEP44]

Honestly the eccpm and mccpm debate is pretty much a waste of time in this day and age. The modern radios make eccpm set up just as easy as mccpm, they only difference is that you may have to hit the reverse switch or move a servo wire on a reciever. If this does become confusing for some reason there are great step by step how to videos so you can set it up flawlessly with little if any clue to what you are doing. As far as in flight stability and agility goes they fly almost identical. I have a raptor 50 and a trex 600. Both are fitted with fast servos and light weight paddles and are equally nimble. They weigh in at almost the same weight. The only difference is that I can get more pitch out of the raptor head than the trex. If I was flying them for the first time I wouldn't be able to tell that one was eccpm and the other mccpm. For those who think that the X50 is better or worse for having eccpm get over it and take the 3 minutes to learn how to set it up, it's not really any different.
1 side note, you will have to buy 3 servos that are the same model... Bohoo, you just sprung for a new heli, don't be a cheap skate and set it up with old servos.

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello again,

I guess there is no need to get offensive and I appreciate we can discuss w/o emotions

First of all, I'm not speaking about, whether the X50 will be a great heli or not, he is pretty modern and the TT-designers smart enough to come up with some steady improvements. So what really matters in the long run is, that it is not about having fear that Raptors won't be served anymore by TT, then the fact, that nobody (company) can be everything to everybody and if you are known for something (and better you are then you are not) it is not that easy to change the mindset about what people think about you (company, products and brands).. else TT needs to transist from a mid-range fibre-resin helicopter manufacturer to a higher level .. to much competition there already and setting-up peoples mind costs lots of money and takes a long time .. just to play me-too later in this range?

Regarding the eCCPM vs. mCCPM discussion: Yes, there is a big difference inbetween this 2 things .. anyone can set-up a eCCPM system and true there are even vids and other helps about that .. but:

- most people are not able to set-up an eCCPM with almost no mechanical differentiation and swash-interactions (let's not speak about phasing - makes it even more complicated) ..

- the overall performance of eCCPM systems regarding electronic accuracy is very bad considering people even buy expensive Tx-systems to later have way less resolution of servos then what the paid ..

So having a system like the mCCPM the Raptors have is not modern? .. what's more customer-friendly then having a very easy technical solution allowing anyone not to take care about such things as interactions and low servo-resolution ?

Is it about having something people call modern - or what just works with little knowledge and does a more precise job?

I fly 3 models with eCCPM and even my Vibe50 works way better (more precise/ less interactions) with a cyclic-swash mixer (CSM Cyclock) and only this way gets a similar precision in servo-controls as all of my Raptors always had .. and gentlemen, guess what this little device (Cyclock) emulates .. correct, it emulates a *H-1* swash-type (1 servo for collective, 1 for ail, 1 for elev) .. .. so, the device emulates an *old*-fashionend swash-type to help an eCCPM-system to have a comparable precision as an mCCPM-system of the Raptor always had? Funny somehow

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: eCCPM is not modern gentlemen, just except in Europe it was not accepted for a long time in the US and Asia .. there is a reason why you precedent modeler generation did so

[kiwibob72]

I'm of one simple thought on this ....... "fly what you want"
If you want a Raptor for whatever reason (as I do), fly one.
If you want the new X50, Trex, Vibe or whatever ....FLY ONE (I'd like to be able to afford the luxury of two heli's)
What ever way you decide to go, just go out and make the most of what this hobby has to offer, if you wanna fly 3D, FLY 3D, if you (like me) want to fly sport - FLY SPORT like ..... just as long as you enjoy your time flying and don't hurt anyone - WHO CARES WHAT YOU FLY??????

The guy at the local field I respect the most is this one older guy with the oldest RC Heli's I have ever seen ..... he just gets out there, flys his heart out, and tries to be helpful to anybody who sticks their hand up for help .... as at the end of the day is that not what this hobby is all about?