G30 maiden flight and surprise autorotation!

[helihammer]

I flew my G30 yesterday for the first time (not counting test hovering) and was very pleased to see that the BD3SX self-leveling mode makes this big thing fly just like a coaxial!

I finally got it set up and mounted the way I like it (above the tail transmission). I was just buzzing around and then my Dad says, "let's see how high you can get it!" Usually, I wouldn't listen to anything anyone tells me to do, but I got it up there pretty high (maybe 100 feet? I don't know) then it came back down just fine, blades smacking the air the whole way down (sorry, that's not when the autorotation happened!)

Then, after a short time of hovering near the ground, say, about two feet up, I heard eeeeeeeeeeeeeorrrrp...... OH NO! Having never done a real autorotation before (just in the sim), I kept the collective almost constant because it was so close to the ground and then raised it just a bit....The heli came down to earth with the slightest bump and landed safely.

Then my Dad said, "Good thing it didn't happen when you were way up there, you would've said it was my fault!"

So, the first flight was fantastic

One thing irks me, however. I can get a good 7 minutes of flight time with a nitro Shuttle that I have, but I struggle to get more than 5 with this gasser! Is it possible that my pitch/throttle needs to be examined? I have full travel on the throttle servo, and the throttle curve and pitch curves are linear (0 25 50 75 100) with +/- 10 deg and 0 at mid stick.

The engine seems to get up to about mid throttle and stay there, so I would think that although I can open the throttle all the way up, it gets loaded down by the pitch.

Any ideas? I'm not certain, but I think the Zenoah (I'm not sure what it is, I bought the heli used and it has no stickers or markings) has a Walbro 643 carb on it.

I'll post a video of it flying so you can listen to the engine. Sorry, the video won't include the autorotation

[Dennis P]

A video will sure help but I would guess that you are very rich on the high speed mixture and probably the low speed also to burn a tank of fuel in that short of time. This would also explain your lack of power to pull the pitch. You should get over double that time with a little to spare.

[helihammer]

Here's the video... You'd think that it would be the first to pop up in youtube, but surprisingly, I had to dig for it.

Radikal G30 Maiden Flight (1 min 33 sec)

It does seem to bog down because although I have full travel on the throttle, the RPM never seems to increase. My thoughts were that it is running rich as well.

It has Edge rotor blades, they are 720 mm measured from the center of the root hole to the edge of the blade (is that how you measure them?) The closest thing Edge makes (or used to make) is a 713 mm blade, so maybe these are those?

As I said before, I'm not sure what Zenoah it has, I wish I knew.

I don't know what the headspeed is, nor do I have a way to measure it. Let me know what you think please

[Mr.HillBilly]

I figured you had your HS screaming but it does not sound bad. I think the motor sounds good myself, see what the other guys think. Maybe that tank is leaking more than you think it is.

As for the throttle curve most gassers are like 0, 20, 35, 40, 100 your carb will hang out below half throttle most of the time.

You running a gov?

If you would have tried this a week ago I could have dropped that tank off and I could have seen it in person on the way back through, I was less than 30 miles from your town.

If it fights you too much I can meet you at "Hill Hoppers" field in Wheeling WV some time, it is half way between both of us. I have been wanting another reason to go to their field so I can fly with some other heli. guys.

Your feedback purchase ad says it is a 30cc, there is no PUH 30cc but there is a PUH 29cc. See if you see anything like this in the pic. by your gas tank.

Your tank is headed to the post office today.

[helihammer]

Ok thanks,

I plan to try and mess with it this weekend. We'll see if anyone else chimes in. Maybe I could meet you there some weekend as well.

I'm going to take the engine out and try to identify it further as well. While I have it out, I'll put it on the bench and try to tune it up.

Al at Hanson has been very helpful with phone support so far.

[Mr.HillBilly]

I added a pic. since your reply.

[rbort]

Close each one slowly until it stops, do NOT tighten just to the stop and count the turns.

Let us know how many turns on each. The L needle is closer to the engine.

-=>Raja.

[helihammer]

Originally Posted by Mr.HillBilly

I added a pic. since your reply.

I saw that. As far as I know, I don't have any numbers there. Maybe he didn't modify it after all and the pull starter was just purchased from him.

I asked the seller if he knew what engine it was, and he said he thinks it's a G260 because the 29 cc engine was not available when the first owner had purchased it. Not sure if that means G260 RC or PUH.

I ordered some engine tools (fan puller, piston stop, etc.) to perform maintenance if it is needed.

Raja, I will take the engine out soon and put it on the bench and see what's going on.

I remember once my Dad's weedwacker (Stihl FS74) had a clogged muffler. The engine would never get above half throttle and it had no power. After the local Stihl shop cleaned the carbon out, it ran like new. They told him that a clogged muffler can be caused by not running the engine at high throttle. I don't know if any of that applies here, but Al did tell me that some of the V2 mufflers clogged (I think mine is a V1).

Do you guys have any recommendations on a good set of 690 mm blades?

[MotorRotor]

The only Century muffler that had "clogging" problems was their V5, specially when used with certain oils that was mixed from 25:1 to 35:1. This did not seem an issue with fuels mixed with Amsoil 100:1 at mixes from 65:1 to 100:1

I have never heard of any clogging issues with the V1 (I have hundreds of flights with my Predator using one of these. Or with any of the V2's that you are mentioning.

Just a note from an experience with a club member this past weekend who was having trouble getting his G231 to run for any length of time. Turns out he had forgot to remove the plug on his air intake line.

As for a blade recommendation, what type of flying are you planning for?

[Mr.HillBilly]

Good thought on the plugged vent line, done that one more than once. If he is burning that much gas it has to be pulling it good unless that tank is leaking real bad. On that thought, do you have the vent line going above the fuel tank then back down again, if not it might be syponing it out when it is running. When you get the tank I sent you use the vent line that is installed in the top of the tank and run a fill and feed line out the tank stopper. I was always going to do a set up like that to have one less thing to get the clunk line hung up on inside the tank.

If that does not work I can meet ya in Wheeling and take a look, my bird is down for this weekend and I have a FF the following weekend.

As for your motor I do not figure Hanson marks the 26 and 23 motors, As for blades I like the Maverikks and KBDD blades myself. I have RJX on my G30 right now got them cheap at HobbyKing.

As for carb. needles my 643s are 1 1/8 on LOW and 1 3/4 on my HIGH. If you are careful you could pull your carb apart and their is a small screen inside it that may be kind of plugged up, not real hard to get to but you take a chance on taking out some gaskets. I would wait on that until we get together, I have a extra 643 that we can slap on if we screw up a gasket.

[helihammer]

"The only Century muffler that had "clogging" problems was their V5"

Maybe it was that one, I can't remember. I'm planning on just some easy scale flying for now.

Originally Posted by Mr.HillBilly

Good thought on the plugged vent line, done that one more than once. If he is burning that much gas it has to be pulling it good unless that tank is leaking real bad. On that thought, do you have the vent line going above the fuel tank then back down again, if not it might be syponing it out when it is running. When you get the tank I sent you use the vent line that is installed in the top of the tank and run a fill and feed line out the tank stopper. I was always going to do a set up like that to have one less thing to get the clunk line hung up on inside the tank.

If that does not work I can meet ya in Wheeling and take a look, my bird is down for this weekend and I have a FF the following weekend.

As for your motor I do not figure Hanson marks the 26 and 23 motors, As for blades I like the Maverikks and KBDD blades myself. I have RJX on my G30 right now got them cheap at HobbyKing.

As for carb. needles my 643s are 1 1/8 on LOW and 1 3/4 on my HIGH. If you are careful you could pull your carb apart and their is a small screen inside it that may be kind of plugged up, not real hard to get to but you take a chance on taking out some gaskets. I would wait on that until we get together, I have a extra 643 that we can slap on if we screw up a gasket.

I got the fuel tank yesterday, it looks very nice. The tank I have on it now does not leak an exorbitant amount of fuel, so I wouldn't say that's the cause of the short flight times. Nor would I blame fuel leaking out of the vent line, since mine is installed in a very similar manner to the one on that new tank (nipple on top with a short length of tubing pointing down).

I don't have a plug on the vent line, it goes straight from the tank to the carb, as does the fuel intake line. I am more equipped to disassemble the engine, so I think I will put it on the bench this weekend and play with the needles. I'm almost certain that the carb is a 643.

[helihammer]

I pulled the engine out and tried to take it apart further, but I decided against it. I got the fan shroud off, but the only darn markings I can see are "ZENOAH" cast into the cylinder and a number (can't remember what, 2253?) cast into the head, probably a part number.

Attached are some pictures. One is of the piston around the ring area. Note the brown coloration below the ring. The other one of the piston shows what the bottom of the piston looks like, silver.






I'm not sure about the spark plug as I don't have much experience at reading them, but I'd say it looks like it's running rich and it couldn't hurt to replace it.

Originally Posted by Mr.HillBilly

As for carb. needles my 643s are 1 1/8 on LOW and 1 3/4 on my HIGH. If you are careful you could pull your carb apart and their is a small screen inside it that may be kind of plugged up, not real hard to get to but you take a chance on taking out some gaskets. I would wait on that until we get together, I have a extra 643 that we can slap on if we screw up a gasket.

Turning the carb screws in until they stopped and then back out to where they were while counting the turns, they are pretty much where you said they should be. I did put the new fuel tank in, but I have not yet run the engine and tried to turn the screws like Raja said.

[rbort]

The needles need to be 1/8th turn different from what Hillbilly said, 1 1/4 on low and 1 5/8 on high and maybe up to 1 3/4 on the high since its a 29cc but the low should be richer on a 643 carb. 990 carb the low is leaner like 1 1/8. Different carbs set needle turns differently but yield the same mixture.

-=>Raja.

[helihammer]

I'm still on the first 2.5 gallon tank that I have to use with my weedwacker. I'm using Stihl 2-cycle oil at 32:1. I figured I'd try it out with this and see how it goes, but first I'm waiting on a replacement spark plug boot spring from Dave's. I'll run it on the bench and adjust the needles when it comes in.

[rbort]

From the color on the piston and/or the oil is dirty "so to speak" i.e. not as clean running.

-=>Raja.

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by rbort

From the color on the piston and/or the oil is dirty "so to speak" i.e. not as clean running.

-=>Raja.

+1. It could also be a combination of too much oil in the mix, and/or running too rich. From the earlier video, it certainly sounded like it was running rich.

As for oil, you will find that Amsoil Saber 100:1 mixed in a 65: to 80:1 mix will result in a much cleaner burn with good lubrication.

[helihammer]

Originally Posted by rbort

The needles need to be 1/8th turn different from what Hillbilly said, 1 1/4 on low and 1 5/8 on high and maybe up to 1 3/4 on the high since its a 29cc but the low should be richer on a 643 carb. 990 carb the low is leaner like 1 1/8. Different carbs set needle turns differently but yield the same mixture.

-=>Raja.

Well I tried my hand at tuning it today, and I think it went pretty well. I had turned the needles all the way in and then back out to what you said. I started it on the bench and leaned the LSN out while it was at high throttle (for some reason, the HSN appeared to do nothing, even while the engine was at what I thought was a high throttle). I

leaned the LSN util it sounded sluggish at high throttle, then I richened it back up until the RPM decreased, then I left it somewhere in between. It ran fine, but still sounded a little rich and was still sucking down the fuel.

So I leaned the LSN to where it started to cough while spooling up, then I richened it again (but still left it leaner than when I first flew). At twelve and a half minutes, the fuel was level with the bottom of the tank stopper (just under a 1/4 tank) so I'd say 15 minutes isn't out of the question. It appears to run well (to me), but I'm not done yet!

I think some shorter blades may help too (it has 720s on it now).

On another note, I heard some clinking noises near the tail when pirouetting, this makes me think that the torque tube is hitting the inside of the tail boom, so it may need new bushings.

Ah, the joys of the used helicopter.

If you have any other recommendations I would be eager to hear them
Dan

[MotorRotor]

Originally Posted by KB3TUO

.................I think some shorter blades may help too (it has 720s on it now).

On another note, I heard some clinking noises near the tail when pirouetting, this makes me think that the torque tube is hitting the inside of the tail boom, so it may need new bushings.

Dan

Shorter blades require higher pitch settings and/or more rotor speed to generate the same lift. As 3D flying benefits by higher head speeds and larger pitch ranges, you will find that the hard, extreme 3D fliers will use the shorter blades while the general big-sky 3D fliers sports aerobatic fliers, FAI fliers and scale fliers will use the longer blades. For the type of flying that you earlier indicated that you want to fly, your 720mm blades will be very good. They will also provide better auto-rotation performance.

As for the notice in your tail, if the original builder did not properly secure the bearing support bulkhead onto the torque tube when inserting the assembly, then the outer part of the bulkhead can detach from the bearing and slide up or down along the boom. This will cause a sound like you describe.

If your G-30 is one of the older ones that was belt driven, then [I] would suspect that the belt is too loose. I find that after the belt is broken in (has been run long enough to have stretched to its maximum natural length) I will adjust it properly and then pin the tail gearbox so it cannot slip inward by drilling a small 2mm hole through it and the boom and securing with a small short, self tapping metal screw on the side..