Phoenix Setup FAQ

[on.looker]

Hi Arquitron,

I just double checked, the mixing type is currently set to 1 servo. Any other settings will cause the heli to flip upon take off, regardless of calibrations.

That’s a good suggestion, thank you.

[TheBum]

Check the channel assignments for your transmitter in "Your controls". Make sure they match what the transmitter uses.

Also, regarding calibration, make sure you always start with the channels centered and with a linear response. Non-linear curves in your transmitter will mess it up. If you have unused models in your transmitter, consider devoting one model to sim calibration.

[on.looker]

Hi Alen,

I’ve actually checked and double checked all basic setting and options numerous times for the last 4 months before coming here to trouble you guys. I have assigned a model slot on my 2801 for PhoenixRC (with all linear curves for the simulator) but it is only used for testing. Instead, I have devoted a WK-2403 for use with PhoenixRC. This TX is so basic that you can only select either normal or %50 DR. It also has a toggle to enable a pot for setting upper throttle limits. Other settings like EXP, gyro, and etc… is beyond the scope of this TX.

For the exception of an overly difficult hover (cause by this forward and left drift), every simulated heli handle's as they should. If any of the 4 channels (Throttle, Rudder, Elevator, and Aileron) were assigned incorrect, I would have notice it long ago.

Thanks for you suggestions,

[evoIX]

Need help guys , i've just updated my phoenix to version 3.0q

when i was on 2.5 , the radio worked fine on idle up

but on ver 3.0q , i cant seem to go negative pitch on idle up .

ive check the model pitch setup , i've checked my radio settings as well

when i pull the throttle stick down to go into negative pitch , the heli still climbs up .

thanks a lot

[Connery]

Hi all, Got my copy of Phoenix in the mail yesterday and with some help, built the adapter for my Airtronics SD-10G. Got just about everything working. My pitch and throttle curves are working as well as my idle up switch. However, I'm having problems getting the Gyro settings to work. The heli slowly rotates counter clockwise no matter what gyro setting I have set on my radio. Where else do I need to configure it to work correctly?

[on.looker]

Hi evolX

lol. I have almost the exact opposite problem. In stunt mode, I am only able get a positive pitch when my throttle is over %80. I have somewhat normalized it by fully reducing the PIT adjustment (turn the knob fully negative) on my TX. This should not be happening.

[roto20]

Originally Posted by TheBum

Once the curves and throttle hold are set up in your radio, you'll find that the throttle hold and idle-up switches perform the desired action. Expo and dual rates set in the radio will work as expected too.

You may need to tweak the physics settings in the sim to adjust cyclic response due to the lack of swash mixing in the radio to accomplish that:

Adjust the Frontal cyclic response and Lateral cyclic response values. Location of settings:
Phoenix 2.x: Model>Edit, click on Main Rotor
Phoenix 3: Model>Edit, click on Detailed, open Flybar menu.

I can't seem to get dual rates to work in Phoenix.
TX is set to Expo off and dual rates at 100%.
Am I missing a location of the dual rates in the model editor?

I have changed the Frontal cyclic response and Lateral cyclic response as you suggested but the dual rates still do not function.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Nick

[TheBum]

Dual rates are strictly controlled in the TX. In order to see any effect from the dual rates, the two rates need to be different percentages in the TX and you need some way to switch between them, e.g. a switch assignment.

[roto20]

Originally Posted by TheBum

Dual rates are strictly controlled in the TX. In order to see any effect from the dual rates, the two rates need to be different percentages in the TX and you need some way to switch between them, e.g. a switch assignment.

Ok, that makes sense. So the functionality of dual rates is essentially the same as the Idle up function?

If I want more throw (faster cyclic response) do I adjust cyclic response in Phoenix"?

[TheBum]

Originally Posted by roto20

Ok, that makes sense. So the functionality of dual rates is essentially the same as the Idle up function?

From the standpoint of D/R and flight mode both affecting channel values going to the sim, yes.

If I want more throw (faster cyclic response) do I adjust cyclic response in Phoenix"?

For model-independent cyclic response changes, you can increase or reduce the ATVs for the aileron and elevator channels in the TX.

If you want to change it per model, there are settings in the model's parameters in the sim to change response. Look for the Front Cyclic Response and the Lateral Cyclic Response parameters. You'll probably have to experiment with the values since they're not in degrees.

[on.looker]

Originally Posted by TheBum

From the standpoint of D/R and flight mode both affecting channel values going to the sim, yes.


For model-independent cyclic response changes, you can increase or reduce the ATVs for the aileron and elevator channels in the TX.

If you want to change it per model, there are settings in the model's parameters in the sim to change response. Look for the Front Cyclic Response and the Lateral Cyclic Response parameters. You'll probably have to experiment with the values since they're not in degrees.

Sorry to interrupt, (I am assuming that you have correctly calibrated your TX) are you sure that you have the D/R, and its desired values, assigned to the desired switch? Like Alan has said earlier, “Dual rates are strictly controlled in the TX.” You can check for this by observing how your real RC Heli is responding and/or if you have a monitor function on your TX. From what I have experienced, the D/R effects are “instantaneously activated” in PhoenixRC once I throw the D/R switch on my TX.


Alan,
For a more aggressive cyclic response wouldn’t it be better to increase the “Cyclic tuning” under “Fine tuning” instead? This setting will not alter other effects.

[roto20]

Originally Posted by on.looker

Dual rates are strictly controlled in the TX.” You can check for this by observing how your real RC Heli is responding and/or if you have a monitor function on your TX. From what I have experienced, the D/R effects are “instantaneously activated” in PhoenixRC once I throw the D/R switch on my TX.

For a more aggressive cyclic response wouldn’t it be better to increase the “Cyclic tuning” under “Fine tuning” instead? This setting will not alter other effects.

Is it just me or are the stock cyclic throws insufficient for 3D in phoenix? In comparison to Realflight's stock Heli throws Phoenix is in my opinion setup for sport flying only.

I did manage to get D/R and Expos to work by entering settings of different values for D/R 0 & 1 in my TX.

Perhaps I am missing something?????

[on.looker]

In short, even though both simulators provide a slightly different environment (look and feel) their physics are quite accurate. The same heli on both simulators should feel and fly very similar (IMO about %90) therefore, if its responses differs widely (and assuming both simulators are installed and working correctly) than I would focus my efforts on my TX. If you consider Realfight as a “closed system,” using its own controller, than PhoenixRC is an “open system,” allowing you to use your own TX. PhoenixRC’s approach will introduce numerous unknown and uncontrollable variables but IMO the pros still far, far outweighs the cons.

Another avenue you might want to explore is perhaps that the heli you have selected for your training is not aggressive enough for your style of flying/training. You might want to try using something smaller like a Beam E4. One good fallout about these simulators is that you don’t need to spend +$1,000 just to find out you DON’T like the heli.


Here’s personal take on the topic.

Both simulators uses a different default zoom factor and both do not have any indicators showing the current zoom factors. This causes perspective issues. I was having A LOT of trouble with “Balloon busting” until I figured out that PhoenixRC was using a 4x zoom by default!!

The default angles and zoom factors used in Realflight gives me a lot of grief! They are just unnatural to me. According to Realflight’s “Heli Orientation training” I can’t hover tail-in even if my life depended on it! For some reason the simulator also has a fairly aggressive backward slide making stationary maneuvers even more difficult. I have not experience that phenomenon in the real world with a properly trimmed heli. But mostly, it is the default camera angles and zoom factors used in Realflight that creates a very dreadful environment for me to learn in. Among one debilitying aspect of over zooming is that everything seems to be ultra responsive, similar to too aggressive D/R and expo settings. It’s like trying to drive in a straight line when you are ONLY ALLOWED to look at the front edge of your car through a pair of binoculars with a 12 times magnification. lol, You would need a lot of D/R and expo for your steering wheel if you try to drive like that.

[Jdheli73]

Worlds most helpful topic this:-)

[NRPY]

Can't seem to get Idle Up or Throttle Hold working with a DX8. I've tried everything suggested here a few times. All I get is Normal mode operation, and Throttle Hold doesn't work.

This SIM is of no use to me if Ican't fly in Idle Up. It's frustrating. In RealFlight everything just worked.

Edit:
I got a flat TC by editing the each Throttle endpoint to 100% in the Your Controls menu, so Idle Up kind of works now. Still no Throttle Hold though so Autos are out.

Edit2:
Got TH working . . . finally. I must say, Phoenix is not very intuitive to set up. They could do a much better job explaining and facilitating setup of arguably the two most important features of helicopter simulation flight - Idle Up and Throttle Hold (for auto practice).

[slickcoater]

^^

I totally agree, I've read this whole thread in order to understand how to correctly program my DX6i.

[Gttahoe]

Can this setup work with the DX5e radio?

[TheBum]

Originally Posted by Gttahoe

Can this setup work with the DX5e radio?

No. It doesn't have any programmable curves. You'll have to rely on the pitch and throttle curves in the sim and using the keyboard to activate throttle hold and idle-up.

[CyberPlainsDrifter]

Has anyone connected their DX8 to Phoenix? I have. (bought sim last night.. so not much time on it yet)

Seems that I have to "Tweak" something in order to get the TH and FM's to work.. so far no luck..

Anyone else have any pointers?

Sorry if this has been discussed further down the line.. Ive been short on time today and I havent had the time to read the entire thread.

[SovietSpyGuy]

Originally Posted by TheBum

No. It doesn't have any programmable curves. You'll have to rely on the pitch and throttle curves in the sim and using the keyboard to activate throttle hold and idle-up.

I wouldn't say that...I use the toggle button on the upper left (defaults as gear switch I believe?) to switch between normal and idle-up, and I have the trainer switch set to act as throttle hold. True, you have to hold the trainer as it only stays in one position, but it works great for practicing autos and such.