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Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme Helicopters Discussion


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Old 12-12-2012, 08:20 AM   #1
surm
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Default What's Kyle's vbar numbers on Logo 700 Extreme?

Hi Dave, do you mind sharing Kyle's vbar numbers on Logo 700 Extreme?
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:48 AM   #2
dahld
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Here they are copied from another thread from the "other" forum. There is a thread here on HF as well that has them, but I can't remember which one.

Main Rotor:
style - 74
agility - 100
gain - 56 (this number appears is low, but is due to the head's design and dampening scheme)

Main Rotor Expert:
parameters:
dead band - 2
elev. pre-comp -10
paddle sim. - 0
expo - 5%
optimizer:
50 / 47

Tail Rotor:
yaw rate - 120
gain - 86

Tail Rotor Expert (I'll just list the numbers vertically as they appear in the menu):
parameters:
5
60
80
55
50
30
expo - 10%
optimizer:
30/30
torque pre-comp:
22
0
0

Gov Gain: 30

Gov Expert (numbers listed vertically as they appear in the menu):
3
30
15
5

Set-up menu:
collective - 92 (not sure what that equates to as to the number of degrees +/- collective)
cyclic - 120 (about 11.5 degrees)
pitch pump - 15

Head speed for competitive flying: 2050

Caution: you may or may not like the way the helis flies with these numbers. The beauty of V-Bar...adjust to your liking.

(-: Dave
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:14 PM   #3
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Thanks for sharing Dave, what got my attention, no paddle sim, just the way i like it, although i likec20% on some helis, also the cyclic at 11.5 deg, many times we have way too much then have pitching issues, my ballpark fig is 12 deg here. Just shows from the above looks like a fairly tame setup till you see him do the business! Just one question, will i be able to fly like your son if i set up my vbar exactly like his?
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:41 PM   #4
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So it's ok to set the cyclic higher than 8 degrees?
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:22 PM   #5
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Wow 11.5 cyclic ! I'll have to try it.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:00 PM   #6
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Mikado still strongly suggests sticking with 8 degrees of cyclic despite Kyle running 12 degrees.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:27 PM   #7
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Part of the whole 8 degrees test is to help the pilot evaluate during the set-up of his heli whether the geometry of his particular machine is not too far out-of-wack. Remember V-Bar has to work with ALL helis...at least they try to help that happen by prompting the issue in the cyclic set-up menu. Too much or too little cyclic when performing the set-up test, can indicate the geometry is out-of-bounds, and the V-Bar's full potential can't be reached unless the geometry is "in-bounds".

With Mikado helis, you KNOW the geometry is optimized for the V-Bar, so going higher than the 8 degrees isn't immediately going to cause problems.

But...part of why experienced pilots can get away with having so much cyclic pitch, is they've learned to "manage" the collective and cyclic inputs. If you go to full collective (12+ degrees), and add in another 12 degrees of cyclic (24 degrees total), then unusual things start to happen, because the blades are WAY past their stall angle-of-attack, blade drag goes WAY up, and...

So I don't recommend setting such high cyclic rates, just to see what happens when you bury the sticks in the corners.

Head dampening, agility and gain settings all play into the "set-up", and are dependent on each other to make the V-Bar and the heli play well together. Kyle developed the numbers after LOTS of experimenting, and in the end, they work for him, but are by no means THE only way to set the machine-up to fly well.

(-: Dave
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:28 AM   #8
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I think you guys read this wrong there is a huge difference between the 8 degrees for reference in setup and the actual cyclic measured, 8 degrees referenced in setup real values can be 12 degrees in one setup 16 in another, idepending on make and model, real measured cyclic for flight depends on your cyclic ring values, more often than not 8 degrees as reference is too high for flight so actually you have to bring it down to get to 11 in real terms
Except if i understand this wrong that kyle has 11. 5 degrees instead of the 8 degrees needed for reference, that means he will have about 20 degrees for flight, somehow i doubt that. If that be the case the whole 8 degree reference is a hoax
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:42 AM   #9
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Dahl/Stolla,

There is a mixup with definitions here.

1. 8 degree step in SETUP is to learn the Vbar WHERE the 8 degree is, nothing more, nothing less.

2. If you have 11.5 degree cyclic when measured total deflection it's the CYCLIC RING in expert setting that affects.
In some way, yes Cyclic on MAIN SCREEN tab will also affect this, but it's like this, if you lower agility enough = it's active, if you have it high enough it's the Cyclic ring that is active.


End word:
Yes you can overdrive the system by raising the CYCLIC THROW in setup, but that's just fooling the system, if your servos are up for it, good to go, if not you get oscillation.

That's why you should post files and not numbers as many of the parameters in the vbar relate to eachother, and in some cases take out each other, so they are ONLY valid if all numbers are presented.
This is also why I never suggest people tweak only numbers "as pro" as many cases they end up with really bad setups as they break the relationship.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:56 AM   #10
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Yup Fredrik, kind of what i tried to say, you said it better though.
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:02 AM   #11
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thanks! what size main and tail blades?
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #12
Votecyakguy
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Default Kyle Dahl VBAR 5.3 Settings for Logo 700 Extreme

Dave and MEL:

Thank you for your informative posts. I am finalizing the setup of my new Logo 700 Extreme (bought from ReadyHeli as the Combo kit about 2 months ago) and had a few questions where the manual is not clear or appears to be incorrect.

In Vbar 5.3 SETUP menus:

Tail - I'm running the supplied servo arm and ball link with a BLS256HV servo. What should the CCW and CC settings be approximately

Gov I - Is a cable from the ESC supposed to plug into to the RPM sensor port on the VBAR? Right now, my ESC cables plug into the Collective/ESC port and the Servo/ESC ports onthe VBAR

Gov II - Gear Setup : Gear Ratio says 9.772 in manual. But seems it should be 10.294. Which setting is correct?

Gov II - Gear Setup : What should Sensor Configuration be set for: Manual says 5, default is 8?

Gov II - Are the Autorotation Bailout Mode and/or Idle During Bailout generally checked or left blank?


VBAR and Sensor Mounting Location Recommendations - is it best to mount the sensor on the top rear frame mounting tray as close to the mainshaft as possible and then mount the VBAR right behind it?


Many thanks!

Greg
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:57 PM   #13
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Does Kyle run only with the 5% Expo on the VBAR or does he also use the TX expo function as well? I know this is personal preferance, but would still like to know.

Many thanks!

Greg
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