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Minicopter Joker/Diabolo Helicopters Minicopter Joker/Diabolo Helicopters Discussions |
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06-05-2016, 02:52 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Tail blow out
Hi Guys, does any body use the Bavarian demon on your diabolo? Im running 110mm zeal tail blades and 716 rail blades. My gain is already set very high but the tail keeps on blowing out to the right (heli nose goes to left).
When i hover and do a full pitch the heli does do a complete half circle before correcting. During a funnel I lose the tail completely. I'm running the silver tail pulley with 1800 RPM most of the time, but this issue is on all head speeds however each head speed has a different gyro setting. Once I sort it out on 1800rpm then i'll start looking at the other settings. Gyro is currently set at 60% which is quite high. Appreciate some input or alternatively if some one can share their BD file with me I would appreciate it. oooh and running a pyro 750-56 competition with kosmik 200
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William Blake Team Kontronik TDR1, Banshee 850 # 22 Diabolo 700 |
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06-05-2016, 06:04 AM | #2 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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William try the red pulley to speed up the tail, also the diabolo has alot of tail travel if its going all the way to the end it may be stalling consider reducing. Tri tail will also solve it.
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Diabolo S #6 Diabolo TDR N7 |
06-05-2016, 10:38 AM | #3 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
To the end points? Wow that is new. Yes my tail does sometimes sound like its takimg strain. I will place a order for the red tail pulley.
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William Blake Team Kontronik TDR1, Banshee 850 # 22 Diabolo 700 |
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06-05-2016, 11:12 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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You still should. It is just that if the tail doesn't have enough authority and you are constantly working it out on the ends. Then having blow outs. Time to either step up to the red gear and speed up the tail rotation, or run a tri tail.
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If it can be done wrong, I will find a way to excel at it. |
06-05-2016, 02:00 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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Join Date: May 2011
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just don't run the red tail pulley over 1900rpm
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Richard Zappe Team Kontronik USA PeakAircraft |
06-05-2016, 03:54 PM | #6 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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I'd suggest the red pulley and/or 116 tails. I'm flying at 1650 and 1740 HS with 716 Rail mains and 116 tails. I'm using a Spirit FBL and the tail is SOLID. Above 1900+ rpm the tail does start to get noisy, but the red pulley was designed for low too moderate HS. While not necessarily a bad idea, I don't think the tri-tail is needed in your situation.
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06-06-2016, 03:28 AM | #7 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Thanks for the help guys. I will go ahead and purchase the red tail pulley and see if there is a difference.
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William Blake Team Kontronik TDR1, Banshee 850 # 22 Diabolo 700 |
06-06-2016, 10:03 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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Join Date: May 2009
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I ran the red pulley and 116 tail blades on my Diabolo up to 1750 rpm with Rail 716 main blades and would still have occasional blowouts especially on windy days. 1400 rpm was quite easy to blow out, 1600rpm was more difficult but still prone to blowouts, and 1750rpm was better still but I could blow it out especially on windy days.
Tri-blade tail with 106s solved the issue for me. Tail behavior and authority is much better, especially at lower headspeeds. One thing that did help the blowouts on my setup was limiting the tail pitch to +/- 29.5 degrees. Symmetrical blades without additional airflow or movement will stall at about 27.5 degrees so any additional pitch just taxes the tail drive system without generating any additional thrust as the blades begin to stall. The reason for 29.5 degrees is to account for any flex in the system and also take advantage of the additional airflow as the heli is moving which increases the amount of pitch before reaching stall. Reducing the pitch to +/- 29.5 actually helped to reduce blowouts and also cut down on how noisy the tail was compared to just running it to maximum mechanical limits which I think were somewhere around 34 degrees. Also, in my experience 60% tail gain is quite low with the BD especially since you're running the silver tail pulley. Without having the TX in front of me to look at I think my Diabolo & BD is running 75% at 1400, 70% at 1650, and 65% at 1750-- and this is with the red pulley, tri blade tail, and 106 blades which has far more authority than your 2 blade / silver pulley / 116 combo. Back when I was still running the 2-blade tail with 116s and the red pulley I want to say the gain was up around 80%. I'll post all my BD tail settings when I get home, but keep in mind they're applicable for a tri tail / 106 / red pulley setup.
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Minicopter Diabolo - BD Axon, Kosmik 200, Xnova XTS 4530-480, 14S 4500, BLS255HV/BLS256HV Bergen Magnum 44 - BD Axon, Wren MW44 turbine, BLS156HV/BLS256HV Jeti DC-16 Last edited by Kiba; 06-06-2016 at 11:50 AM.. |
06-06-2016, 12:35 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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Kiba,
Thank you so much!! this really helps and is very informative. Its strange for me because all my helis are running BD and none of them has tail gain above 50%...so thats probably why I was thinking something is wrong at 65%. I ordered the red tail pulley today, so lets see if that helps. I might have a chat to Tareq to see how he finds the tail. The other guys here in Dubai dont seem to have the same problem as me however they are running VBAR. I'm going to try the pulley and if that does not work I will adjust the tail pitch as per the above. Thanks again!
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William Blake Team Kontronik TDR1, Banshee 850 # 22 Diabolo 700 |
06-06-2016, 09:48 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Just for your reference, here are my tail settings with the tri tail, red pulley, and 106 blades:
Travel limits 81/81 (for 29 degrees each way) Yaw rate 10 Expo 0 Delay 2 P gain 16 Revo Mix 4 And main tail gains set per the TX are 80 (1400rpm), 75 (1630rpm), and 70 (1750 rpm.) These gains are just below the onset of rapid tail oscillation in hard funnels or in FFF. Unfortunately I couldn't find my old settings with the 2 blade tail, red pulley, and 116s, but I believe the gains were higher.
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Minicopter Diabolo - BD Axon, Kosmik 200, Xnova XTS 4530-480, 14S 4500, BLS255HV/BLS256HV Bergen Magnum 44 - BD Axon, Wren MW44 turbine, BLS156HV/BLS256HV Jeti DC-16 Last edited by Kiba; 06-06-2016 at 11:02 PM.. |
06-07-2016, 12:27 AM | #11 (permalink) |
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Thank you so much!! Will try out these settings to see what results I get.
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William Blake Team Kontronik TDR1, Banshee 850 # 22 Diabolo 700 |
06-14-2016, 07:56 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Just a update guys. So i installed the red tail pulley and reduced the tail pitch and can confirm that the heli is all sorted now. No more blow outs and flies fantastic!
Cheers to all for the help its much appreciated!
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William Blake Team Kontronik TDR1, Banshee 850 # 22 Diabolo 700 |
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