HH brushless motor with xp-3a esc?

[Jomaba4308]

Does anybody know if the HH brushless motor will work with the xp-3a ESC flashed with BLHeli?
If so what are the motor specs for setting up the governor?

[NCcraig]

I don't see why it wouldn't. Just use the default settings. You would have to change the input polarity depending on whey you pick up the signal from.

[Jomaba4308]

I am buying the kit to start with, the xp-3a will come later. When I do get the new ESC I will set it up exactly like the kit except less wires.

[JonBee]

I have one of my Nanos running with this combination and it works well. For those like me who have xp3a's lying around it is well worth trying , and when the replacement HH BL motors can be purchased on their own I see more trying it. Comparing this set up to my Mild conversion it has more power, especially if set up in non governor mode using U curve on throttle.
I am interested in hearing from others trying this combo and sharing their thoughts and findings?

JonB

[MoFreak]

I'm running an xp3a with the HH BL motor. So far I've only had a chance to run the standard blheli parameters for mild... but I run at 100% flat IU throttle instead of 72%, and 95% pitch travel. No problem with basic 3d to 3:30 on an eflite 45c. Streched tail helped get pitch setting up there. Higher head speed adds stability and inertia for burst of thrust. I've ran it at 125% throttle using travel setting, but only for a limited time since I don't want to cook the BL (just yet). I also stacked the xp3a fets for higher capacity so maybe it can actually open up to 45c at times.

I fly a stock nano with factory BL and this one. They both perform relatively well. The stock is a little more lighter and agile but less predictable than the xp3a mod, but it's also all stock except for BL.

[JonBee]

Originally Posted by MojoFreak

I'm running an xp3a with the HH BL motor. So far I've only had a chance to run the standard blheli parameters for mild... but I run at 100% flat IU throttle instead of 72%, and 95% pitch travel. No problem with basic 3d to 3:30 on an eflite 45c. Streched tail helped get pitch setting up there. Higher head speed adds stability and inertia for burst of thrust. I've ran it at 125% throttle using travel setting, but only for a limited time since I don't want to cook the BL (just yet). I also stacked the xp3a fets for higher capacity so maybe it can actually open up to 45c at times.

I fly a stock nano with factory BL and this one. They both perform relatively well. The stock is a little more lighter and agile but less predictable than the xp3a mod, but it's also all stock except for BL.

I am flying I am flying 3 Nanos - XP3a with Brushless HH motor, XP3a with Mild Motor, HH Brushless conversion.

I have been doing a lot of experimenting with this xp3a/ HH brushless set up and so far I am getting best results flashing BL Heli using the TAIL configuration and adjusting the parameters to suit, I am running a V throttle set up at 100,80,60,80.100
This is giving me increased power over a longer period than running a governor set up or tuning the governor off in BL MAIN set up, I don't know why but the difference is very noticeable and the tail is now very solid. interested to hear from others if they have tried this and getting similar results? This is certainly the best set up out of the three I have, this takes into account numerous trials on settings.

JonB

[MoFreak]

Sounds interesting, I'll have to try it with tail code. Idealy using a flat curve with govenor would give best response once the gain and integral settings were tuned in for the setup (assuming higher head speed is desired for 3d). I have an idea how to bench test the parameters using a LiPo charger for a power source, an ammeter, and a scale to measure thrust. Just need some down time...

My feeling on the motors is that although the hp03 has plenty of power, it is running much less efficient since the throttle has to be limited for TBO. The HH motor seems to be sized more appropriately since thottle for the xp3a with mild can be 100% or more. I'm guessing the HH bl motor has higher efficency at this load, which more than offsets the effect of a few grams weight difference between the two. Need motor performance curves or some real data to verify.

[-רחל]

Originally Posted by JonBee

Comparing this set up to my Mild conversion it has more power

You're saying the HH/XP-3A combination has more power than the HP03/XP-3A set?

In one of my Nanos I have the HH ESC driving the HP03 mild motor. I'm not really satisfied with the performance. My Nano with wild setup seems to have 5x more power (climbs like an Estes model rocket)

[MoFreak]

The wild setup has the most power, but I wouldn't fly an estes rocket indoors.

I'd prefer an mcpxbl or bigger over wild for outdoors.

[JonBee]

Originally Posted by -רחל

You're saying the HH/XP-3A combination has more power than the HP03/XP-3A set?

In one of my Nanos I have the HH ESC driving the HP03 mild motor. I'm not really satisfied with the performance. My Nano with wild setup seems to have 5x more power (climbs like an Estes model rocket)

My experience so far is a definite Yes if it is the mild HP03.
It may be that the HP03 / xp3a combination I have could be optimised a bit more, but I have tried most settings in Governor mode to improve it but it only compares to a brushed motor with less battery life and altering things to much seems create TBO.
I must point out that I am sport flyer and my comparisons have been done using pitch pumps to check performance comparisons - It would be good to see the bench test that has been suggested in another response.

JonB

[MoFreak]

Notes from the bench tests with xp3a & HH bl motor (BLH3327):

- Flashed the new BLHeli 11.2 (just released).

- For a power source I used an old hard drive power cable and plugged into my computer power supply (5V = red & black wires), along with a 6 amp diode in series at the positive wire. The diode gives a constant 0.7V drop to bring it down to 4.3V. I have a voltmeter and ammeter wired into the power supply connector to get measurements before the 3-in-1 connector. With tail motor unplugged, I read 4.3V at 0.1 amp with TH hold, and 3.7V at 3.4 amps fully loaded (100% throttle, 125% pitch). Wire and connector losses were low enough for this test and LVC did not happen.

- The highest head speed is with the governor turned off. It seems best to keep it off for V and flat curves since there is not really any excessive power to govern here. It may help at lower throttle settings to conserve a little power using a flat curve with only minor pitch changes, but I like more head speed and don’t want to limit it with the governor.

- Peak continuous thrust is around 65 grams, measured on a scale with negative pitch. I also measured much higher bursts of thrusts with pitch pumps from head inertia. The motor will continue to draw more amps as pitch is increased, but power output was maxed out and it did not produce more thrust. Thrust actually started to decrease as the motor continued to stall (slip out of phase) while amps increased. Adjusting motor timing should help a little, but I haven’t seen any difference so far and the motor can’t operate at this level very long before burning.

- I’m setting Startup Method to “direct” and Startup Power to 1.0 since it starts quicker and amp draw ramps up okay.


I’ve tried the tail code and it does seem very responsive, but it went into a bad stall with higher pitch and became erratic. It is designed for less rotating blade mass which may be the problem I saw with stall recovery.

Next step is to set the maximum pitch travel before TBO.

[JonBee]

[I’ve tried the tail code and it does seem very responsive, but it went into a bad stall with higher pitch and became erratic. It is designed for less rotating blade mass which may be the problem I saw with stall recovery.

Next step is to set the maximum pitch travel before TBO.[/QUOTE]


I am please you also find it very responsive, and its good to see your bench results. I am running BLHeli 10.4 as the 11.2 is asking to update debug stick, I don't know if this is OK to do or not, and can it be reversed if not happy?
My settings in TAIL are:
Motor Idle = 1
Motor Gain = 3
Start up Power = 7
Start up RPM = 3
Start Up Acc = 5
Start Up Method = 1
Throttle Change Rate = 13
Demag Comp = 1
PWM Freq = 2
Motor Timing = 3
PPPM min = 37 PPM Max = 208

I have the Pitch set at 100% and limited through the travel to 88%.
This thing is great, I have not experienced any stall and it never bogs.

[Dylwad]

Originally Posted by JonBee

My experience so far is a definite Yes if it is the mild HP03.
It may be that the HP03 / xp3a combination I have could be optimised a bit more, but I have tried most settings in Governor mode to improve it but it only compares to a brushed motor with less battery life and altering things to much seems create TBO.
I must point out that I am sport flyer and my comparisons have been done using pitch pumps to check performance comparisons - It would be good to see the bench test that has been suggested in another response.

JonB

Your HP03 is likely bad. I did some tests between the mild outrunner and HH Inrunner geared the same ratio driving the same prop, so a fair test. rpm at the prop was the same, but the outrunner used 5%less power to do it (shows how much the kv drops on the inrunner under load too) Moving to a bigger prop on both motors increased the gap in efficiency by a good margin.

5%doesn't seem like much, but that added in to the difference in weight makes a huge difference.

I'll swap yours out if you want, hate to see apples to oranges comparisons because the data might be coming from a single source, which might be bad.

[MoFreak]

[ I am running BLHeli 10.4 as the 11.2 is asking to update debug stick, I don't know if this is OK to do or not, and can it be reversed if not happy?]

I'm using the Silabs toolstick and updated without a hitch. I would think it should be reversable with using the manufacturer's flash utilities. I'll try out your tail settings.

Dylwad - I'm not sure how you are measuring power and efficiency from rpm only. I assume you have a constant power source and can measure power in & thrust out. It'd be interesting to know your setup and data as well so one can repeat the findings.

[Dylwad]

Originally Posted by MojoFreak

[ I am running BLHeli 10.4 as the 11.2 is asking to update debug stick, I don't know if this is OK to do or not, and can it be reversed if not happy?]

I'm using the Silabs toolstick and updated without a hitch. I would think it should be reversable with using the manufacturer's flash utilities. I'll try out your tail settings.

Dylwad - I'm not sure how you are measuring power and efficiency from rpm only. I assume you have a constant power source and can measure power in & thrust out. It'd be interesting to know your setup and data as well so one can repeat the findings.

Amps, volts and rpm between two motors on the same prop and gear ratio does the trick, and using the same battery, fully charged, readings taken 30 seconds into the run.

[JonBee]

Originally Posted by Dylwad

Your HP03 is likely bad. I did some tests between the mild outrunner and HH Inrunner geared the same ratio driving the same prop, so a fair test. rpm at the prop was the same, but the outrunner used 5%less power to do it (shows how much the kv drops on the inrunner under load too) Moving to a bigger prop on both motors increased the gap in efficiency by a good margin.

5%doesn't seem like much, but that added in to the difference in weight makes a huge difference.

I'll swap yours out if you want, hate to see apples to oranges comparisons because the data might be coming from a single source, which might be bad.

Thanks Dylan, I have had the same thoughts with regard to a dud motor and appreciate your offer, unfortunately for me I have beaten you to it and taken delivery of another HP03 13500 to try, however my board has stopped binding on my nano with this set up so it may be a while before I build back up ( spent to much this month and reflow in oven did not work). I appreciate all the testing and results people are posting and as with yourself I welcome the feedback from others rather than a single source, these are only my findings and as you point may have other factors affecting the results, having said that my comparisons between two HH Factory Kits and the HH in runner with xp3a flashed with BLheli TAIL all favour the later for my flying style. I welcome feedback from anyone experimenting with this combination or any other that may work, I have always had an open mind and enjoy running suggested set ups that may help myself and others.

JonB

[MoFreak]

Originally Posted by Dylwad

Amps, volts and rpm between two motors on the same prop and gear ratio does the trick, and using the same battery, fully charged, readings taken 30 seconds into the run.

Thanks for the info. I wouldn't think the rpm could've been the same between tests since motors have different Kv rating, unless the pitch was different.

There shouldn't be a major difference between the motors, but it is noticable for those not satisfied with the mild, or may have a bad hp03.

[Jomaba4308]

My kit came in today and already a noticeable difference from stock, not huge but it is noticeable.
As for upgrading the tail, is the 7mm xtreme tail the way to go or is double brushless a better choice? I may eventually get an hp-03 16000kv motor, I am just using the factory kit to get a taste of the Nano on steroids.

[MoFreak]

Originally Posted by JonBee

My settings in TAIL are:
Motor Idle = 1
Motor Gain = 3
Start up Power = 7
Start up RPM = 3
Start Up Acc = 5
Start Up Method = 1
Throttle Change Rate = 13
Demag Comp = 1
PWM Freq = 2
Motor Timing = 3
PPPM min = 37 PPM Max = 208

I have the Pitch set at 100% and limited through the travel to 88%.
This thing is great, I have not experienced any stall and it never bogs.

Those settings work great! (using tail code flashed for main) I didn't have any issue with stall under heavy load on bench like before. Better than original main code overall. I'm running at 100% flat throttle, 95% pitch travel. Good work!

On bench I could only get 63 grams peak static thrust at 3.7V & 3.1 amps with the tail code verses 65g for main code (using same constant power source at 100% throttle), but tail code performs better in the air. Also, the stock nano with HH esc only produced 57g and 2.8 amps max.

[Dylwad]

Did you guys ever try gov range low on main? or multi code?

Btw the ppm value sliders have zero effect when using the esc on the nano board.

I'll set the inrunner back up in a gearbox and test which code and settings make the most power soon.