I want to get into Professional Grade AP. What do I need?

[TowPilot]

Originally Posted by stmpngrnd

Crash is asking what he needs to get into pro grade AP....he definitely "needs" to be informed of the legal landscape associated with AP before investing many thousands of dollars in equipment. Not providing Crash this info would be a disservice by the active and informed members of the AP forum from whom he is asking assistance.

How come every time someone posts any link to the legality of AP HF moves it or calls out the poster? It is a very apparent trend here over the last 6 months.

By the way Crash did open the door for info regarding the legality of AP!

The post by Goldenhour is not about legality which is why it is off topic for Crash.

All other posts here about legality for Crash, regarding charging for AP work, are on topic.

Please view the link posted by Goldenhour and see that it has nothing to do with the legality of charging for AP nor with professional AP equipment.

The forum is mainly for support of amateur use of AP, not the businesses.

[pc3associate]

Not sure why someone would chime in nitpicking how relevant someone's link posting was. It is a friggin discussion. As far as I see it Rob mentioned that circumstance then Golden simply added a link to the exact situation.

Everything on any thread can be found in another thread on here somewhere. So what? Do we just not post because it might have been discussed or mentioned elsewhere? IMO the thread would have continued on just fine. I believe the derailing of the thread was by tow pilots comment

[TowPilot]

Originally Posted by pc3associate

Not sure why someone would chime in nitpicking how relevant someone's link posting was. It is a friggin discussion. As far as I see it Rob mentioned that circumstance then Golden simply added a link to the exact situation.

Everything on any thread can be found in another thread on here somewhere. So what? Do we just not post because it might have been discussed or mentioned elsewhere? IMO the thread would have continued on just fine. I believe the derailing of the thread was by tow pilots comment

OK, so the post was given as an example of what Crash should not do.

[Crash_Expert]

I took these with my Gopro 1 and 450 3D an hour ago at my field
What do you think?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TowPilot]

Looks very nice, Crash

[Crash_Expert]

Originally Posted by TowPilot

Looks very nice, Crash

THANKS!!!

my dad looks so funny holding that plane
reminds me of a penguin

[stmpngrnd]

Originally Posted by TowPilot

The forum is mainly for support of amateur use of AP, not the businesses.

So is this the now unspoken rule of this forum and why posts have been moved and members input moderated ? If it is then just be honest about it, amend the rules, post it for all and all is good. The trend of the past several months makes me think this is RR of yesteryear and there must be something going on behind the scenes no one officially wants to talk about.

I'm not trying to be an @ss but would like to know the truth why this particular forum has become the one of the most moderated on HF espically when it comes to important information?

Given the current legal landscape and political witch hunt on AP .... aka "drones"...I think this forum is crucial to informing new users as to what is happening in a hobby that has ground into a very high profile cottage industry before they invests thousands of dollars in their pursuit.

[Garland]

HF has always been RR "Lite". I might get banned now

And noone wants to put in type on the internet what they are doing which may or may not be legal. Even if the FAA is half BS in their new regulations

[TowPilot]

If you were using HF to start up a hobby shop, that would be moved to Manufacturers, Dealers or OT.

Drones are not about individuals doing AP.

They are about government or companies, doing business, making and selling drones for intel.

This is the only forum where for sale threads get cross posted multiple times.

And was the worst forum for people new to AP to ask a question in.

In the past, people asking about AP were grilled to oblivion. That's how the business folk apparently strove to drive off average person looking into or asking about, AP.

[R_Lefebvre]

Originally Posted by pc3associate

Not sure why someone would chime in nitpicking how relevant someone's link posting was. It is a friggin discussion. As far as I see it Rob mentioned that circumstance then Golden simply added a link to the exact situation.

That's specifically why I did not post links to the stories I briefly mentioned, because I knew that would get my post moderated. In the past, I've posted really important info threads about events that have happened that would be of concern to users here, but they just get sent to oblivion (off-topic forum) so I don't bother anymore.

I didn't realize this forum was dedicated to Non-Professional AP. Maybe the name should be changed to reflect that?

[TowPilot]

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

That's specifically why I did not post links to the stories I briefly mentioned, because I knew that would get my post moderated. In the past, I've posted really important info threads about events that have happened that would be of concern to users here, but they just get sent to oblivion (off-topic forum) so I don't bother anymore.

I didn't realize this forum was dedicated to Non-Professional AP. Maybe the name should be changed to reflect that?

Actually, I should rephrase this entirely.

There was a time when the clique of professional AP were simply brutal to the non-professional AP.

The thread from a someone who was not a pro and asking the very normal, how do I do AP would be chastised to silence.

Not all would do this and those who tried to assist would be pressed to stop as well.

The end result was accomplished though in that people new to AP or had a hobby interest in AP were successfully excluded from the forum.

Also, people thought they were able to cross post for sale threads here as well. And again, simply not true. These need to be in the FS forums. But that is a separate topic.

Suffice it to say, there is a wide range of equipment available, from home made to off the shelf. A few back then, tried to assist no matter who asked. But the end result was, the harassment from a few, drove away any new faces who were not part of their clique.

The past year has seen threads from new people, trying their hand at AP just for fun and maybe not for the long term, maybe a passing interest. And responses are helpful.

In summary, the AP forum is not for the few pros to build their business at the exclusion of people exploring AP.

When it gets into the commercial drones, that's not AP, that's intel and can be followed up as easily in the OT forum as it could be here. You are not excluded from OT. Moving is not killing a thread, just as moving from the Main to the model specific forum or the a FS forum.

What the FAA does, that's about the business of flying the gear and not really about looking into the vibes, cameras, software, etc. It's regulatory, political, how to make money like owning a hobby store or a web retail outlet.

So it would be like you own a hobby shop and are asking someone else about a model or a how to and not discussing which tax codes changed or other regulatory aspects of conducting the business.

Being moved is not being denied the discussion in that the thread exists in a forum better suited to the content. Amazing how put out people can be over a move. It was not deleted, there was no scolding or finger pointing, the thread can be enjoyed in the other forum at will.

There are many other forums here. I've moved other threads to AP due to the question, recent example was this thread
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=574341

Where yes, it could have been moved to the 600 forum but his question is about electronics such that he could fly AP.

And the response were helpful, thank you for that.

Sorry I didn't have time to explain this very well earlier and had to post up a quick short response.

Cheers,
Mike

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm OK with most of the explanation. In fact I very much understand what you're saying about some people chastising new people from talking about the basics. We've seen a few examples of that recently.

But I don't understand the logic behind moving a thread where the subject is the FAA's response to AP, to OT. Nobody interested in AP sees it there, so it just dies. But it's important for AP people to see it. Whether it's to convince them it may not be a good career move, or simply to inform them they should talk to a lawyer.

We see this question over and over and over, "is this legal" "I don't understand, some people say it's legal, but lots of people are doing it". Etc. And then I post a thread with a clear example of FAA's stance and it gets moved to OT. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

[TowPilot]

People can follow it there.

Also, please consider that no matter the source, no matter how clear, people will dispute it.

Look as Crashes thread regarding a sign stating the park can not be use for 6 to 8 activities. The responses included "do it any way" and if you have noticed, this same response occurs to these posts about FAA guidance.

In the end, people choose based on what they perceive they can probably do without being arrested or pay fines on. The rest follow the guidance to avoid such risk.

A thread can state a fact such as the sky is up and the earth is down and there will be a discussion about it, some denying it, some working around it, others accepting it.

In the end, there is no defining thread, as suggested.

[warpiggy]

I asked the legality question to an FAA inspector back in Utah when I was getting into AP. He said that there is nothing they can really do, and told me I'd be fine. However, I know it is a real grey area, but that's getting more black and white. The government has told the FAA that it has to make some sort of way to legally fly AP so you can expect that in the near future. You can also work on getting a certificate by practicing, educating yourself on Aviation laws, and going to a sort of test site and certifying your equipment/skills. I think it's a great time to get into AP, not exactly to legally make money at this point, but it will, so why not get established now so you'll be ready to go when the laws pass for good.

In my honest opinion it's a good thing to put some sort of control over "drones" I think AP is a little overboard only if it is always line of sight... FPV stuff is another category that scares me to some degree. A lot can honestly go wrong with those and it really doesnt take much to take down a commercial aircraft.
I pulled this following document off the faa website, it explains the future of UAS integration, check it out for sure.

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives...admap_2013.pdf


I personally fly with an Airstar Mongoose,
After doing a ton of research I decided to go with this setup because of:

Reliability, the mongoose was built as an industrial helicopter, not an adapted 3d heli... also it still has the capability of autorotation even with the heli mount. Multis... not so much

Flight time, I chose the gas model, I get over 20 minute flight times, and refueling takes seconds... plus, no real need for long cool down periods in between flights, and no long charge times. Mine also has the on board generator so no worry about batteries dying in flight.

Cost, I've got about $6-$7 grand into the whole setup, that was about half what I could get a comparable multi or other setup for.

and it's a proven design. (There aren't any full scale multirotors besides the Osprey, and that has seen it's fair share of accidents.)

I'd put my money on mechanics over electronics any time, ESPECIALLY when flying a lot of money around people.

Anyways, I hope you're still excited about AP, I think it has an awesome future, and will get back into it as soon as I'm done with training in about a year.

PM if you have any other questions

Landon

[tott]

: arggg:

Ok since this has obviously taken a wide turn away for the original questions I feel it is ok to put my 2 cents in here.

Wow....after being away from HF for a while. I come back to WASTE my time by what seems to me TOW PILOT derailing this thread.

@TOW....How about we MOVE your comments to another thread LABELED "to discuss what moving threads should and should not include & why I move them"

Seriously....

I assume I will be banned now as well which is fine by me....but I had to mention my frustration.

I do understand that SOMEONE has to TROLL these threads to insure things stay proper but I feel a knee jerk reaction is all too often the case when it comes to deleting, moving a and threatening to ban or chastise someone.

How about we leave it up to the other guests to decide. If you notice that perhaps a certain thread has gotten for topic and "other" helifreakers are mentioning it as such, then use your AUTHORITY to then do something about it. Most forums self regulate this way for the better enjoyment of everyone.

Rant over and ready to accept my ban now ... Sorry everyone to waste more of your time with my rant.

: arggg:

[TowPilot]

And you couldn't PM me?

Sigh....

[Crash_Expert]

Originally Posted by TowPilot

And you couldn't PM me?

Sigh....

I honestly don't blame him.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[stmpngrnd]

Originally Posted by TowPilot

Actually, I should rephrase this entirely.

There was a time when the clique of professional AP were simply brutal to the non-professional AP.

The thread from a someone who was not a pro and asking the very normal, how do I do AP would be chastised to silence.

Not all would do this and those who tried to assist would be pressed to stop as well.

The end result was accomplished though in that people new to AP or had a hobby interest in AP were successfully excluded from the forum.

Also, people thought they were able to cross post for sale threads here as well. And again, simply not true. These need to be in the FS forums. But that is a separate topic.

Suffice it to say, there is a wide range of equipment available, from home made to off the shelf. A few back then, tried to assist no matter who asked. But the end result was, the harassment from a few, drove away any new faces who were not part of their clique.

The past year has seen threads from new people, trying their hand at AP just for fun and maybe not for the long term, maybe a passing interest. And responses are helpful.

In summary, the AP forum is not for the few pros to build their business at the exclusion of people exploring AP.

When it gets into the commercial drones, that's not AP, that's intel and can be followed up as easily in the OT forum as it could be here. You are not excluded from OT. Moving is not killing a thread, just as moving from the Main to the model specific forum or the a FS forum.

What the FAA does, that's about the business of flying the gear and not really about looking into the vibes, cameras, software, etc. It's regulatory, political, how to make money like owning a hobby store or a web retail outlet.

So it would be like you own a hobby shop and are asking someone else about a model or a how to and not discussing which tax codes changed or other regulatory aspects of conducting the business.

Being moved is not being denied the discussion in that the thread exists in a forum better suited to the content. Amazing how put out people can be over a move. It was not deleted, there was no scolding or finger pointing, the thread can be enjoyed in the other forum at will.

There are many other forums here. I've moved other threads to AP due to the question, recent example was this thread
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=574341

Where yes, it could have been moved to the 600 forum but his question is about electronics such that he could fly AP.

And the response were helpful, thank you for that.

Sorry I didn't have time to explain this very well earlier and had to post up a quick short response.

Cheers,
Mike

So to end the confusion, mixed messages, open and or hidden agendas...lets just rename this forum "RECREATIONAL Aerial Video and Photography". It's obvious that HF considers anything not recreational a commercial drone and on off topic.

Recreational and hobby users can then use this forum oblivious to the legal landscape which will soon effect their hobby. All non-rec AP followers can then just move on to RCgroups or APlanding. Or wait...how about creating a "Professional Aerial Video and Photography Equipment" forum to go along so that way nobody has to leave, no info be censored or buried and everyone can be happy and not get in trouble from the moderators.

[TowPilot]

Originally Posted by stmpngrnd

So to end the confusion, mixed messages, open and or hidden agendas...lets just rename this forum "RECREATIONAL Aerial Video and Photography". It's obvious that HF considers anything not recreational a commercial drone and on off topic.

Recreational and hobby users can then use this forum oblivious to the legal landscape which will soon effect their hobby. All non-rec AP followers can then just move on to RCgroups or APlanding. Or wait...how about creating a "Professional Aerial Video and Photography Equipment" forum to go along so that way nobody has to leave, no info be censored or buried and everyone can be happy and not get in trouble from the moderators.

This began when the pros were stomping all over the recreational users.

Had this been a share resource rather than the pros bumping out the recreational users, there would not be nor should there be a need to have a pro vs recreational delineation.

[pc3associate]

What is it with you saying "pros stomping all over people"??????? I have never read a thread on here where anyone stomped all over anyone. What is it with you anyway? Do you have a vendetta against someone on here?