Tutorial - CopterX head on Belt CP

[don99]

Originally Posted by baileyboy

After reading numerous posts and hearing about how long it takes to get CopterX parts from China, I found Rotorheadz out of Florida. They seel mostly CopterX parts and I have been receiving my orders in about 2-3 days depending on where the weekend falls.

Thanks for the info, baileyboy.

don

[don99]

Karen - The head setup for Copx is exactly the same as Beltcp? The mixer/washout arms must be leveled (horizontally) at mid-stick (50%) in Idle up ON (stock Tx), correct?

don

[nasukaren]

Yes, but you really need a pitch gauge to make sure you have 0 pitch at 50% throttle and acceptable + and - pitch at the extremes.

karen

[don99]

Originally Posted by nasukaren

Yes, but you really need a pitch gauge to make sure you have 0 pitch at 50% throttle and acceptable + and - pitch at the extremes.

karen

How about the flybar paddles issue? Are you still using Belt paddles and weights?

I have a problem. When I removed the main shaft of the copX, I did not mark which one is the top, which one is the bottom so I can upside down correctly. Now I looked at the shaft and saw a color in the middle, from there to both end are unequal distances, one shorter than the other, not sure which one is the original copx mainshaft top, which one is the bottom? I can not upside down it if I don't know which end is the top..

Please help.- Thanks.

Note: No matter which end is the top, I can not have the flat place to tight the colar anymore because it now goes deep inside the frame...???

don

[nasukaren]

don -

no, i got copter x paddles since the belt paddles weren't a good fit for me. i'm using the belt weights but they fit loosely. once i stop crashing every other flight, i'll take the weights off to make the heli a bit more responsive (i.e., less stable).

re: the main shaft. the reason you turn it upside down is so that the the thinned section of the shaft doesn't ride in any of the bearings. so if you can see that thinned, then you have it the right way up. if you can't (because it's hidden inside a bearing) then it's wrong way up. you'll want to go by that as once you bend your main shaft and replace it, you'll need to install the replacement properly and they don't indicate on the bag which way is up!

you don't need a flat or thinned section to tighten down the collar, so just tighten it down where it's snug against the frame. the thinned section is just a convenience. unless you're flying upside down (which it doesn't sound like you're doing yet), the upper collar isn't really weight bearing.

k
karen

[don99]

Originally Posted by nasukaren

don -

no, i got copter x paddles since the belt paddles weren't a good fit for me. i'm using the belt weights but they fit loosely. once i stop crashing every other flight, i'll take the weights off to make the heli a bit more responsive (i.e., less stable).

I can not even fit the copx fly bar rod into the belt weights holes, the diameter of the copx fly bar is larger than belt weights holes...How do you do that?

For learning hovering, I need the heli more stable, so I need the fly bar with weights. And the weights can not fit into the fly bar rod so I might have to use something to enlarge the weight holes then even if if will make it a little loose...?

re: the main shaft. the reason you turn it upside down is so that the the thinned section of the shaft doesn't ride in any of the bearings. so if you can see that thinned, then you have it the right way up. if you can't (because it's hidden inside a bearing) then it's wrong way up. you'll want to go by that as once you bend your main shaft and replace it, you'll need to install the replacement properly and they don't indicate on the bag which way is up!

you don't need a flat or thinned section to tighten down the collar, so just tighten it down where it's snug against the frame. the thinned section is just a convenience. unless you're flying upside down (which it doesn't sound like you're doing yet), the upper collar isn't really weight bearing.

k
karen

Now I understand why the main shaft must be upside down - thanks Karen

Since the Copx main shaft is shorter than the stock, I am doing the head set up but having trouble levering the washout arms. At 50% and idle up, the washout arms are not leveled. To make it level I had to shorten all 3 links from swash to servos but the original stock link in the front (right at the AR pin) seems already too short that I can hardly make it shorter (3.2 cm). If I force it more, it will touch the balls and bind it.

Since it's hard to lower the swash that way, the only way left is to raise the washout arms which means I have to shorten the 2 links connected washout arms to the bell hiller arms, which also mean i have to mess up the preset of the copx head which i am so hesitated to do so...Do you have any better solutions? When you do the set up for the new Copx head, did you keep the preset (all the original length of the links) from the factory or did you changed them accordingly to level it?

Why can't we use the stock main shaft? with the stock shaft, because of its length, I don't have to shorten too much the servo links to the swash to level the washout arms.
i don't have to mess up the copx head pre-set links.

don

[nasukaren]

Originally Posted by don99

I can not even fit the copx fly bar rod into the belt weights holes, the diameter of the copx fly bar is larger than belt weights holes...How do you do that?

That's what I meant about the stock paddles not working with my new flybar. You can either use your old flybar and have it fit a little loose in the head, but means you can recycle your paddles/weights... or you can get new flybar paddles. You can either get preweighted ones (8 grams or so) or lightweight ones (4 grams) and reuse the weights from the BeltCP. If you look at the pix of my bird which I posted in another thread, I believe you can make out the weights.

EDIT: here's one example: http://gallery.me.com/nasukaren#1000...&bgcolor=black

For learning hovering, I need the heli more stable, so I need the fly bar with weights. And the weights can not fit into the fly bar rod so I might have to use something to enlarge the weight holes then even if if will make it a little loose...?

If you take the weights off the old paddles, then they will fit loosely on the new flybar -- then you can cinch down their grub screws and they'll work.

Since the Copx main shaft is shorter than the stock, I am doing the head set up but having trouble levering the washout arms. At 50% and idle up, the washout arms are not leveled. To make it level I had to shorten all 3 links from swash to servos but the original stock link in the front (right at the AR pin) seems already too short that I can hardly make it shorter (3.2 cm). If I force it more, it will touch the balls and bind it.

Yeah, I had to shorten the links a lot. And for some, I had to make new links altogether as the linkage rods were too long. Luckily I have a lot of spare parts, so I could make shorter links from new, shorter rods. If you don't, you might be able to do it by snipping off a portion of the linkage rod with wire snips.....

Since it's hard to lower the swash that way, the only way left is to raise the washout arms which means I have to shorten the 2 links connected washout arms to the bell hiller arms, which also mean i have to mess up the preset of the copx head which i am so hesitated to do so...Do you have any better solutions? When you do the set up for the new Copx head, did you keep the preset (all the original length of the links) from the factory or did you changed them accordingly to level it?

I mistakingly kept them at factory settings, which affected my pitch settings and led to crash #5 (I think). I reset them (and then didn't find a binding linkage, which led to crash #6). So I redid them all.

Why can't we use the stock main shaft? with the stock shaft, because of its length, I don't have to shorten too much the servo links to the swash to level the washout arms.
i don't have to mess up the copx head pre-set links.

The problem with the original shaft is that the holes for the jesus bolts are too far away from the end of the rods. This causes them to bind against the flybar (which due to the design of the head, is much closer to the end of the rod than originally when it was on top of everything). So you can use the stock shaft but you might find the flybar binding at extreme angles.

I actually had a stock shaft and recycled it by cutting off around 2mm off the top so that I could still use it.

karen

[helihathnofury]

"Since the Copx main shaft is shorter than the stock"

There is exactly the same distance between the centres of the holes for the upper and lower "Jesus" bolts. You will get the same swash travel, believe me.

[don99]

I see your bird. It looks very nice. The Align paddles look good too. What kind of weights you use. Karen? I see some at Hellidirect but don't know which one will fit the copx fly bar.

I will need to get new links that shorter than stock. Can I use Align link set? If yes, you have any recommendations?

Also thank you Mike for clarifying the CopX shaft.

Seems like it's hard to keep the head preset working right. So I might have to adjust those preset links too.

[nasukaren]

Mike -

Maybe, I dunno. I didn't adjust back to zero when I put the CopterX on and it turned out to be way too long and I had t oshorten all the links.

Don -

I just use the weights that were sort of wedged onto the flybar paddles of the Belt CP. They can come off them.

And yes you can use the Align link set. In fact, if you're bored, it's a good idea to change all your ball links to the Align size ones just so you don't go crazy later on remembering which are which.

karen

[don99]

Karen - I am working on replacing the tail today. Just removed Belt tail set, found out the horizontal fin blade was gone from last crash too...(some order need to be made..)

Why the copx tail hole is so tight I an not fit the whole tail boom in? I unlock 1 screw among 3 (there are 3 of them, 2 for the tail fin) but still can not fit the whole tail boom into it, just 1/3 of the boom tail get in...? Any other screw I need to undo it? Thanks

don

[helihathnofury]

Make sure that the 5 screws holding the 2 sides of the tail assembly are threadlocked and tight. They have a habit of loosening!!

[Point65]

Just finished 2 packs of outdoor hover on the frozen lake in the sunshine and wanted to send a big "thank you!" to all the freaks the have crashed, rebuilt, modded and shared in the forum. It has been very helpful to me and there is still so much (for me) to learn. I've attached a couple of pics of my heli as of today.

Next steps are to replace the stock swash (which actually was more "tight" than the ESky Alloy swash) with the CopterX swash and do the DTS mod. When I have more to spend, I'll replace the stock Tx/Rx with a programmable.
I think my recharge is complete, so it's time to fly again!

[don99]

Originally Posted by helihathnofury

Make sure that the 5 screws holding the 2 sides of the tail assembly are threadlocked and tight. They have a habit of loosening!!

Thanks for the tips, Mike. So there are 5 screws I need to unlock it. Any specific threadlocker model I need to use properly after I screw them back? Thanks

[don99]

Originally Posted by Point65

Just finished 2 packs of outdoor hover on the frozen lake in the sunshine and wanted to send a big "thank you!" to all the freaks the have crashed, rebuilt, modded and shared in the forum. It has been very helpful to me and there is still so much (for me) to learn. I've attached a couple of pics of my heli as of today.

Next steps are to replace the stock swash (which actually was more "tight" than the ESky Alloy swash) with the CopterX swash and do the DTS mod. When I have more to spend, I'll replace the stock Tx/Rx with a programmable.
I think my recharge is complete, so it's time to fly again!

It's a nice heli. What kind of main shaft are you using, Point65? Thanks

[helihathnofury]

Just get the blue stuff:

http://www.helidirect.com/zap-pt42-l...ker-p-6524.hdx

Mike

[Point65]

Originally Posted by don99

It's a nice heli. What kind of main shaft are you using, Point65? Thanks

I'm using the shaft delivered with the CopterX head and upside down of course. I got the pre-assembled head & tail package.

[don99]

Originally Posted by Point65

I'm using the shaft delivered with the CopterX head and upside down of course. I got the pre-assembled head & tail package.

You don't use the CopX swash plate, do you? Is there any reason why? Did you do any adjustment on the preset links on CopX head at all? Or just plug-n-play?

By the way, I see you use 0704B gyro with stock TX, which I heard a lot of complain about it does not work properly in rate mode. How do you manage it? I've been thinking about replace it with my stock rate gyro but wondering if it will be a proper decision...

[don99]

Originally Posted by helihathnofury

Just get the blue stuff:

http://www.helidirect.com/zap-pt42-l...ker-p-6524.hdx

Mike

Thanks Mike - I just made an order which includes this one...

[Point65]

Originally Posted by don99

You don't use the CopX swash plate, do you? Is there any reason why? Did you do any adjustment on the preset links on CopX head at all? Or just plug-n-play?

By the way, I see you use 0704B gyro with stock TX, which I heard a lot of complain about it does not work properly in rate mode. How do you manage it? I've been thinking about replace it with my stock rate gyro but wondering if it will be a proper decision...

Swash: Right, I didn't have time yet to move the swash guide to the front and so I used the stock plastic swash which works fine. I replaced the ball links on the swash with CopterX links and balls and had to trim off a bit at the bottom of the the 2 links and 2 "elbow"-links to avoid binding to the swash. After installlation of the new head I did a complete head set up to get all the layers from swash and up leveled and balanced.

Gyro: Works OK for me. Initially, I got a bad tail wobble as soon as the gyro started to correct i HH-mode, rate mode was OK. It took some testing with the new tail servo and finding the right combination of position of ball link on the servo horn combined with the gain/delay setting and limit setting. Below is a copy from the thread https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=97597

I lost my "rock solid tail" and the tail wobble returned after I adjusted the belt tension which was too tight. My new settings that work fine in rate and HH mode are; limit 10%, gain/delay 0% and the ball link moved to the first hole on the servo horn (approx 4,8mm out). My only problem now is that I need different trim in rate mode compared to HH-mode.

Testing with the slower Esky EK-0508, I can increase the gain/delay and move the ball link to the servo horn further out, to the 2nd or 3rd hole.

Toward the end of the battery cycle (10-12 min) in hover it needs a slight adjustment on the trim, I guess this would be solved by using a separate BEC or other ESC than the stock.