Depth perception

[RogerRabit]

Doing some f3c training again after not flying for approx 10 years

I have very much problems with the depth perception.

If i hover direct over the cone i have no problem.

When i piro up to 4, 5 meters above and go down again i am much off track in depth.
Sideways ofset is not the problem
I am never away left or right from the cone but either i am before or behind it.

On landing on the spot in the middle i am inches correct in left-right but up to 20 inches before or behind the spot, eben i could swore i will hit it inside a inch.

In figure 2 semicircle/piro i had a buddy check and he means i am ofset in depth nearly 5 meters away from me at the top of the circle???

For me it looked perfect.

Do we lose so much eyesight in 10 years?

Are there tricks and tips and excercises to regain a better positioning in the depth?

any technical aids for training?

[LN400]

I have a very similar experience. Depth, be it in real life or on the sim, is causing me more headaches than azimuth does. My thoughts have been to have a 2nd person seeing the heli 90* on from where I'm standing and call out to me if the heli drifts away or towards me,

Problem is of course, around here the guys I know would rather pull their hair out than spend an afternoon watching a toy heli hover

Another aid could be to have a camera film the heli 90* on, and after each go at it you would look at the recording and decide how much the heli drifted. Not as useful as having a 2nd guy there but it's something.

[marcosp]

I was thinking google glass with a distance calculator would help in showing distance in realtime. If you input the size of the heli and it measures the angle at which you are seeing it it could overlay realtime distance and height. I hope we have something like that someday. Binoculars for naval use do that already measuring a known height to calculate distance.

I also thought about GPS with telemetry but I think the precision is nowhere near what we need. As of now for depth a helper is essential, and for height a chord with the 2.5 + 2 or 5 + 2 to learn and memorize the height. My biggest problem is holding hover at 7 meters and 360 at 7 mts.

[RogerRabit]

The 360 in the fai diamond is only a concentration issue.
Hardest is when the sky is really blue. Then you have on real orientation.

Concentrate on the disc ( you see it that time from the underside ) and try to forget the fuse while the rotation.
Just concentrate where the disk wants to move and counteract that.

The heli will stay then exactly at the point.

Problem is that if you cannot steer piros subcncious you will fall behind the heli in control and that will set you off track more than a meter.
If that is your problem go back to piro training over the landing spot until you can keepnit inside the meter circle without thinking, especially on a windy day.

Just my tips from my experience.

GPS with that precision would be a absolute plus.

[marcosp]

It's amazing how we all end up using a similar approach to practice. I spent 20 mins hovering at 7 mts last sunday. I have done piro over the circle for a loooong time many times. Then over both flags. I learnt to decompose into parts from piano practice. I don't understand how people intend to learn by just repeating the whole secuence of maneuvers. I see a weak spot and I repeat and repeat that small part over and over and come up with practice methods to improve my weakness. I've been doing a lot of progress that way.

For the 7mt hover (before the piro) I found looking at the boom, boom supports and back part of the frames is an easy way of having a great visual cue of the helis attitude. It even allows you to see if it is moving forward or backwards. Of course, once you piro you loose this cue so I see your point on focusing on the disk. I was still having trouble holding a steady hover prior to the piro, and you know how a maneuver goes off course if it's shaky from the start, so I focused on steady hover at height first, and piro practice at lower altitudes to then combine everything.

[RogerRabit]

Entering the piro before the heli is absolute stabilized will lead in a desaster.

The trick on stabilizing is not to stop at the upmost point of the diamond but to start slowing down the ascending little earlier in the upword leg.

That way the tilt of the heli at the stop is less and you have more "quietness?" in the machine at the stoppoint.
Badest mistake i found is to try to correct a depth ofset at the upmost point.
If you are off in depth you have to accept that for the piro otherwise you will fly a corkscrew toilet bowl type of motion up there.

If you look at itos flight 9 th august 09 in munice at the minute 1:10 to 1:19 where the piro on the top starts you will notice a astonishing three seconds from 1:16 where he slows down the chopper to the standstill at the upmost point before the piro.

There is no motion at all in the machines position before entering the piro.

You find the flight on youtube.

Btw you have a nice fleet. Would like to test your sylphides setup. I admire that machine.

[marcosp]

I am still learning the setup of the Sylphide after more than a year of having it. The relationship between the mixer positions on both sides on the blade holder arm, delta, flybar output position, weights on flybar and how that affects overall travel endpoints (max min pitch) and the concurrent effect on forward flight as well is a nightmare to grasp. I am using an iPad mini with a spreadsheet with all setups. I have achieved a magnificent setup for low wind with an acceptable FFF performance, an ok behavior for mid winds, and an awful behavior for high wind. If I setup for ultimate stability I get to the point where collective gets so jumpy that I have to move back a notch and then stability suffers. It also gets very slow on cyclic for upstairs maneuvers and these more stable setups demand the mechanics to the limit of binding. At the same time the precision of my flying has improved notably so, what didn't work 6 months ago is worth a second try now. I do love learning the art of setup but sometimes it overwhelms even my 15 years' experience.