Mild kit and tail issues

[drroc]

Hello,

I installed the Astroid mild kit over the weekend, and I think I did an okay soldering job as the heli flies. However, the tail control is crap. I have set normal curve as 0 70 70 70 70 on my DX7, and my idle up curve is all 75s. When I give it a good amount of positive pitch, the tail swings to the right, and when I suddenly drop the pitch, the tail swings quite a bit to the left. So it looks like the gyro is being way too slow to handle the change in the torque of the brushless motor. Do I need to create a manual program mix for the tail and pitch on the radio to compensate for that?

Also, I wanted to clarify the arming procedure. From what I gather, the procedure is as follows:
Turn on the radio and leave it throttle hold (0 throttle)
switch on the heli and wait for it to bind
turn off throttle hold and move the stick to the highest throttle point (value of 70 or 75)
turn on throttle hold

However in my case, I need to do zero, max, zero a few times before the ESC plays the beeps and can actually spool up the motor. This doesn't seem to be right.

[Smok1n]

drroc,

Review this thread: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=412147 You'll find arming instructions.

[NCcraig]

You have a vib problem that is giving your tail fits.

[drroc]

Originally Posted by NCcraig

You have a vib problem that is giving your tail fits.

I didn't have any vibes prior to the install and when the heli is in level hover I don't see any shakes indicating that it has vibe issues...

[nynextel88]

Is your spindle bent? The slightest bend in it will transmit vibrations to your tail, and it will not hold properly. Something to check.

[catpainkev]

How old is your bird, how much flying has it done...perhaps the tail motor is wearing/worn out and is now 'presenting' with your extra BL power...

[NCcraig]

Originally Posted by drroc

I didn't have any vibes prior to the install and when the heli is in level hover I don't see any shakes indicating that it has vibe issues...

You won't. The higher headspeed amplify vibrations wreaking havoc on the gyros that wouldn't be aparrent stock. I get about one in five conversions that fly fine without having to track down vib problems. Check for an out of round main gear, cracked or bent main shaft, bent feathering shaft, feathering shaft too loose or too tight and blade balance for starters.

[drroc]

Originally Posted by catpainkev

How old is your bird, how much flying has it done...perhaps the tail motor is wearing/worn out and is now 'presenting' with your extra BL power...

The bird has seen quite a few flights. I have a brand new tail boom/motor assembly I can throw on it, and I'll double check the spindle/gear/main shaft.

So to sum it up. No manual rev mixing is needed for the tail, right?

Edit: It seems that the link provided by Smok1n https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=412147 does mention V curves in an attempt to deal with tail kicks.

[Dylwad]

If the tail swings cw it's a vibe issue, spool it up in your hand to check for vibes, add tape to the blades to get rid of them.

Sent from tapatalk

[catpainkev]

The OP is saying the tail swings ccw

If you've a tail assy handy, it's worth a few minutes of your time to eliminate that component

Kev

[Daryoon]

Everyone is ignoring the issue in arming OP mentioned.

Could be a problem with a bad soldered signal wire if you're having to flip the switch a few times.

To arm in Gov TX mode, the ESC just need to see zero throttle, some throttle, back to zero throttle.

You can accomplish that task with the throttle hold switch or actually moving the sticks up and down. It doesn't matter.

The fact that you have to do it repeatedly needs to be address first.

[catpainkev]

OK...Drroc...just try this and report what happens:

Tx on...then TH on...IU on (75% flat you say you have)....plug battery onto heli...wait for initialisation (servos responding)..then TH off (beep)..TH on.(another beep)

Then when you're ready, TH off and she'll spool up softly

That's what should happen.

Does it....??

[Miracle Boy]

My mild Nano did the CCW tail kick when I built it, no matter what flat curve I set the throttle at.

I put my ESC into Gov Arm mode & set a v curve of 100-70-40-70-100. Now my tail holds great!!

You can put the ESC in gov arm mode using the Tx , but you;klk need to unplugg your tail motor so you can hear the beep codes correctly.

If you search for Programming instructions for BHeli v9.x on the Asteroid Designs web site (thanks Dylan) you'll find the instructions that will explain how the ESC can be programmed, and what the beep codes mean. If you have access to a BHeli toolstick, use that to programme the ESC, it's eassier that doing it with the Tx.

Good luck!!

[CAMOMAN]

Mine did the exact same thing with the tail not holding... Went thru everything twice but overlooked the FS..... Found it was slightly bent replaced and tail was good to go again and every time i have had trouble with tail hold the FS has been bent!!!

[drroc]

Originally Posted by catpainkev

OK...Drroc...just try this and report what happens:

Tx on...then TH on...IU on (75% flat you say you have)....plug battery onto heli...wait for initialisation (servos responding)..then TH off (beep)..TH on.(another beep)

Then when you're ready, TH off and she'll spool up softly

That's what should happen.

Does it....??

Yes that happens as you describe. I guess I was too fast initially and didn't listen for the beeps.

I have replaced the tool boom to find a nice crack in the old one which made it less torsionally rigid. The CCW kick is a lot less now in IU mode with 75% curve. In normal mode at 60%, there is no kick but the climbs are pretty weak. I guess I can try to replace the feathering shaft to see if that helps.

[drroc]

Originally Posted by Miracle Boy

My mild Nano did the CCW tail kick when I built it, no matter what flat curve I set the throttle at.

I put my ESC into Gov Arm mode & set a v curve of 100-70-40-70-100. Now my tail holds great!!

You can put the ESC in gov arm mode using the Tx , but you;klk need to unplugg your tail motor so you can hear the beep codes correctly.

If you search for Programming instructions for BHeli v9.x on the Asteroid Designs web site (thanks Dylan) you'll find the instructions that will explain how the ESC can be programmed, and what the beep codes mean. If you have access to a BHeli toolstick, use that to programme the ESC, it's eassier that doing it with the Tx.

Good luck!!

I would need to solder on a plug for the BHeli toolstick, right?

[Miracle Boy]

Originally Posted by drroc

I would need to solder on a plug for the BHeli toolstick, right?

Yup, pretty much. You could solder wires directly to the ESC, then desolder once your done with programming, but you'd be quicker just using the Tx instead. I would hight recommend using gov arm mode with a V curve. My tail is rock solid now. Mine kicked a bit like yours with a flat curve in Tx mode, but it's so much better in Gov arm mode.

I'm sure many others would agree!!

[drroc]

After putting on a new FS and tail the tail is solid during a climb. However, I get a clockwise rotation when rapidly going from full positive pitch to zero pitch.

[bmc76]

Originally Posted by drroc

After putting on a new FS and tail the tail is solid during a climb. However, I get a clockwise rotation when rapidly going from full positive pitch to zero pitch.

That is a definite sign of a vibe problem, been there done that a few times now.

[drroc]

Originally Posted by bmc76

That is a definite sign of a vibe problem, been there done that a few times now.

What did you replace to fix it? blades and main gear?