Helijive

[Justin Stuart]

Still doesn't explain why all of the servos are getting damaged.

[dl7uae]

Well... this is a didactic play about human mind.

Step 1:
One guy experienced a problem. He cannot say what exactly happened, from his description it sounds like the BEC has burned and gave the raw voltage out to the R/C voltage bus. Although that should not can happen (theoretically) because of a safety switch behind the buck converters...

Step 2:
Another one reporting that someone he knows experienced a similar effect (not the same) with a JIVE times ago, no HeliJIVE.
That seems to proof to the human mind that in fact something may be wrong.

Step 3:
The next one reporting that RH reproduced the failure on the bench. RH itself did not announce anything.

And then: They pull the whole inventory. (That's true.)

And now:
Everybody knows that there's something wrong with HeliJIVE. Everybody except of K.

Lovely. LOL

[jtjohn1]

Originally Posted by dl7uae

Well... this is a didactic play about human mind.

Step 1:
One guy experienced a problem. He cannot say what exactly happened, from his description it sounds like the BEC has burned and gave the raw voltage out to the R/C voltage bus. Although that should not can happen (theoretically) because of a safety switch behind the buck converters...

Step 2:
Another one reporting that someone he knows experienced a similar effect (not the same) with a JIVE times ago, no HeliJIVE.
That seems to proof to the human mind that in fact something may be wrong.

Step 3:
The next one reporting that RH reproduced the failure on the bench. RH itself did not announce anything.

And then: They pull the whole inventory. (That's true.)

And now:
Everybody knows that there's something wrong with HeliJIVE. Everybody except of K.

Lovely. LOL

You forgot

Step 4.
Engineer with no personal knowledge of anybody involved or any of the equipment involved stands up and says "That can't happen. It's impossiable."

Kontronic has made mistakes in the past (They don't release perfect products every single time) If memory serves the version 9 of the firmware was to fix a bug that could have caused folks to lose thier Helis as well.

The Heli Jive hasn't been widly tested (by many people. Note I did not say extensivly tested I said widley tested. I am sure it was tested to the nth degree) Obviously Kontronic/RH think there is a problem (I would bet there have been quite a few more instances of this happening other than the ones posted here) since I doubt they would have done something this drastic on the basis of two reports.

I am not saying it's NOT user error that's always a possibility. But if it is then Kontronic screwed up because if there is a way to hook the thing up that passes bench tests but fries your electronics when under load it should probably be in the manual with a great big *DO NOT DO THIS* in the heading and/or a change in the hardware/software to make it impossiable.

[Inverse]

The list of ESCs that don't blow things up appears do be diminishing.

[bkervaski]

And then: They pull the whole inventory. (That's true.)

Based on what? I've talked to RH about this and they didn't indicate they pulled the inventory or to send mine back, they said there were only a few reports or problems and they were in contact with Kontronik.

[dl7uae]

Okay, generally and also based on Bill's posting:

Don't misunderstand me, please. Not saying that it is impossible that there might be a problem. Shit happens every day..

What I tried to say is: Nobody knows anything at the moment, including Kontronik. Hopefully the JIVE from jhheli will appear tomorrow or at least on Monday K's side of the pond. We will see, said the blind man.

Tom

[Mystic3D]

2 guys had BEC Failure, Magneto and jtjohn. Both were replacing Jives, so doubtful user error. No one has responded to
my earlier post asking for a HeliJive working in Mode 9. Guys here still have them but are waiting.

At this point no "official" communication from RH or KT has been sent.

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[Justin Stuart]

The list of ESCs that don't blow things up appears do be diminishing.

Nitro is looking better and better every day.

[marcosp]

Originally Posted by Justin Stuart

Nitro is looking better and better every day.

To exhibit in a heli museum??? hehehe.

[helicraze]

When it fails it seems to output a 50V pulse for a short while then dead! Had this happen a long time ago on V6 120HV.

Worked fine on 1 lipo, plugged in next and it was dead!

[Justin Stuart]

50 volts will definitely kill the servos.

Does anyone know how the internal circuitry is different in the HeliJive vs the old Jive 120? By chance is Kontronik trying to cut corners by using cheaper FETs relative to the Jive 120?

[dl7uae]

In that area is everything the same as in the "normal" JIVE. No. Another guess, please.

And, what has the BEC to do with the final ESC stages? Belief me, nothing, 50 volts into a buck regulator, 5..6 volts out, and that's it. Every other interface of the BEC is galvanically decoupled from the high voltage side by isolation amps. And: None of the two processors has a chance by circuit design to force the BEC to get stall, pushing the raw voltage through a continuously put through switching FET.

No... It keeps to be exiting...

Good night from good old Germany. Tom

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by Justin Stuart

50 volts will definitely kill the servos.

Does anyone know how the internal circuitry is different in the HeliJive vs the old Jive 120? By chance is Kontronik trying to cut corners by using cheaper FETs relative to the Jive 120?

No idea and seriously doubt Kontronik would say anything about the internals. If you wanted to buy a powerjive and HeliJive and tear them both apart you could tell us??
For the greater good. LOL

On an unrelated note, I removed a Jazz 40-6-18 off my FBL 450 and fitted a YGE 60. The YGE is good but a couple of differences. The soft spool up is soft but linear, so it's slow all the way to governed headspeed. The Jazz is soft initially but speeds up quick and locks on final headspeed, not linear, better.
The Gov does not hold quite as well as the Jazz, 200 RPM diff, via optical tach, the jazz is 40 rpm off. But the YGE you can change timing and the power is MUCH better than the Jazz.


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[Justin Stuart]

Is the YGE 60 a similar size to the Jazz 40?

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by Justin Stuart

Is the YGE 60 a similar size to the Jazz 40?

Exact same size, fits underneath the battery tray on a 450 Pro. I was overamping the Jazz on 4S. I know 6S is the new rage, but 4S with a Neu is plenty.
sorry to derail. My bad.

Just needed to lighten everyone up here..

[Justin Stuart]

^^ It might be a slight derail, but that gives me some very important information. Since Kontronik does not make the Jazz anymore (and since the Koby is too big), I have been thinking if the Jazz 55 I have under the battery tray of my 450 Pro were to burn out, I would have to sell the helicopter. The last thing I want to do is strap an ugly Castle Ice to the side of the 450 Pro. But if the YGE is the same size as the Jazz, then my little 450 Pro will be rocking out for a long time to come.

Now if only they would get this HeliJive issue fixed.

[joe1l]

Originally Posted by Justin Stuart

^^ It might be a slight derail, but that gives me some very important information. Since Kontronik does not make the Jazz anymore (and since the Koby is too big), I have been thinking if the Jazz 55 I have under the battery tray of my 450 Pro were to burn out, I would have to sell the helicopter. The last thing I want to do is strap an ugly Castle Ice to the side of the 450 Pro. But if the YGE is the same size as the Jazz, then my little 450 Pro will be rocking out for a long time to come.

Now if only they would get this HeliJive issue fixed.

I use a YGE80 on my Trex450 sport. The 60 is slightly smaller having shorter caps but the YGE80 is still smaller than ICE50 i had on it before. Try using the YGE gov store instead for gov...works much better than the std gov.

As for the HeliJive is concerned, No company is perfect, there is always a few lemons Kontronic will fix whatever is wrong. It could be a bad batch of components that is causing the issue...who knows, either way it sounds defective. Hopefully it gets sorted out quickly and some clarity is brought to the issue.

[whisperdancer]

Originally Posted by In_to_the_Mystic_2003

No idea and seriously doubt Kontronik would say anything about the internals. If you wanted to buy a powerjive and HeliJive and tear them both apart you could tell us??
For the greater good. LOL

On an unrelated note, I removed a Jazz 40-6-18 off my FBL 450 and fitted a YGE 60. The YGE is good but a couple of differences. The soft spool up is soft but linear, so it's slow all the way to governed headspeed. The Jazz is soft initially but speeds up quick and locks on final headspeed, not linear, better.
The Gov does not hold quite as well as the Jazz, 200 RPM diff, via optical tach, the jazz is 40 rpm off. But the YGE you can change timing and the power is MUCH better than the Jazz.


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The programm card is a must for the YGE.
It alows you to select the best governor mode for the ESC and increase the P and I gains for the governor.

[MrMel]

Regards to the helijive

Right now no-one knows why it happened, there is some ideas (mostly to be able to redirect blame) that is floating around, but there is no confirmed cause.
Im sure kontronik engineers will figure it out.

[JamesGreen]

Think I will stick with my Powerjive 120Hv for the moment then