SR bites me yet again :(

[DKS_ONE]

Originally Posted by estarter

After re-read your post, I don't quite get it why your bird will slam to ground unless you apply full low stick in ST2. With your pitch curve (43-48-50-75-100) the heli is flyable upright at a flat 90~100% TC. BTW, my crashed SR still not fixed, need a blade grip, grip link, a main gear... the bent feathering shaft can be straightened. The LHS carry eflite part is 55 miles away.

Head setup, you can have a 43, 48, 50, 75, 100 pitch curve all day long but if you don't have zero at midstick who knows what those numbers ACTUALLY represent?

[John Shipley]

The way I read Kens problem was that he was at 100 % throttle in normal and the heli was climbing. He then gave in low stick, which should have been 43, which would be a negitive figure, but the bird just kept climbing. This means that his head is set up wrong because the bird should have dropped like a stone with anything close to zero pitch. Usually this happens when a heli is set up with the stick in the low position and you adjust the upper links to zero at or around low stick, or you did not have the servo arms at 90 when you did the set up. Kens is actually lucky in a way because if he had tried to invert the heli, he would have drilled it into the ground.
I usually set my IU for flat 50% pitch curve to set up the head.....that way I know it is exact. I once forgot to put it back to linier and took off, fliped into IU and the bird dropped like a stone......until I flipped back into normal and landed.....thinking what a big dummy I was. There is another way to have th problem that Ken decribed. I had set up my SR to have max servo throw and just slightly more to increase my roll and flip rate. I was doing a few moves when the bird starts climbing and I could not stop it. I decided to hit TH before I lost sight of it and as luck would have it, it bounced off a tree and then into ground cover with no harm. But what had happened was that I had popped off a link and it jammed one of the blades to positive pitch. Had I crashed, I would not have known what had happened becasue so many parts would have been broken. So if every thing in Kens set up is correct, I would suspect a popped link. This happens with the metal swashes and usually not the plastic stock swash, because the plastic will bend and the metal will force the link off the ball when it binds......J

[DKS_ONE]

Originally Posted by John Shipley

The way I read Kens problem was that he was at 100 % throttle in normal and the heli was climbing. He then gave in low stick, which should have been 43, which would be a negitive figure, but the bird just kept climbing. This means that his head is set up wrong because the bird should have dropped like a stone with anything close to zero pitch. Usually this happens when a heli is set up with the stick in the low position and you adjust the upper links to zero at or around low stick, or you did not have the servo arms at 90 when you did the set up. Kens is actually lucky in a way because if he had tried to invert the heli, he would have drilled it into the ground.
I usually set my IU for flat 50% pitch curve to set up the head.....that way I know it is exact. I once forgot to put it back to linier and took off, fliped into IU and the bird dropped like a stone......until I flipped back into normal and landed.....thinking what a big dummy I was. There is another way to have th problem that Ken decribed. I had set up my SR to have max servo throw and just slightly more to increase my roll and flip rate. I was doing a few moves when the bird starts climbing and I could not stop it. I decided to hit TH before I lost sight of it and as luck would have it, it bounced off a tree and then into ground cover with no harm. But what had happened was that I had popped off a link and it jammed one of the blades to positive pitch. Had I crashed, I would not have known what had happened becasue so many parts would have been broken. So if every thing in Kens set up is correct, I would suspect a popped link. This happens with the metal swashes and usually not the plastic stock swash, because the plastic will bend and the metal will force the link off the ball when it binds......J

Ya, just like I said, head setup... only longer...lol!

[John Shipley]

Originally Posted by DKS_ONE

Ya, just like I said, head setup... only longer...lol!

Hmmm, Danno, look at my post #19 about the problem and the solution.....which was before your short post. So no offense, but my longer post is a longer version of my post .....not yours............J

[DKS_ONE]

Ya, I was just re-iterating what you said in #19 is all. So my response was a response kinda to estarter but reinforcing your post about head setup but with less verbage. Realizing full well that you explained it just fine in that post. I just hadn't made the referral back to it assuming it had been read. I wasn't trying to be a smart @$$

[estarter]

Originally Posted by DKS_ONE

Head setup, you can have a 43, 48, 50, 75, 100 pitch curve all day long but if you don't have zero at midstick who knows what those numbers ACTUALLY represent?

I need to read all the posts carefully.

For proper pitch setup, say you have -10 to +10 degree for the main blades, pitch curve 0% sould be -10, zero degree should be at 50% and +10 at 100%.

Watch Finless video if not sure.

[John Shipley]

You guys are talking about 2 different things. Estarter is taking about a linier pitch curve which is mostly used for IU, but experienced pilots also use it for normal and TH. Kens problem and what Danno and I are talking about is the normal curve that is adjustable and newer pilots choose 43% at low stick so as not to drive the heli into the ground if they panic. Kens problem, I think, is that he does not know what his actual pitch is and as a result, that is what caused his heli to climb when it should have dropped. Ken is quoting the % in his TX and not the % of his actual blades. As far as Finless is concerned, he is a pesronal friend of mine and I was lucky enough to be one of the sponsers of the last fun fly with him and Will James here in Cal. It was a great event with several of the best pilots in the world. See my thread of Kyle Dahl flying a version of Dyland's BL Nano, that my flying buddy, z-guy took a video of. It is the up and coming micro heli,,,,,,J

[Daddy]

Originally Posted by kenkadish

One would think that after flying, crashing, and repairing my SR for more than two years, I'd finally have gotten the hang of it - not.

Why do I continue to torture myself when I have four other perfectly good heli's I really like to fly and which give me no trouble? No issues with my 500, 450, 300 or mcpx, but OH NO, I have to fly the SR again.

A few weeks ago, I went through my well used SR and replaced a lot of worn parts, including links, swash, blades, tail rotor, etc.

Just wanted to give it a little exercise today....and I was bitten again.

Fooled around with my pitch and throttle curves, and somehow managed to mismatch a normal pitch curve (43-48-50-75-100) with a flat 100 throttle curve in IU 2.

Oops! Normal takeoff and hover, switched to stunt 1 (90 flat throttle and linear pitch) and then to stunt 2 (100 flat TC and normal pitch).

I watched the heli clear the roof of my house, and full negative to bring it down just slowed the upward acceleration.

Hit TH, and spent the afternoon replacing what WERE new and perfectly good main gear, main shaft, feathering shaft, tail boom, tail motor, and horizontal fin mount, in addition to rebalancing the main and tail blades.

Good thing I had nothing better to do other than watch Discovery TV and down 4 or 5 cups of coffee.

Back at it tomorrow, just to be sure it flies OK before I put it away for a while.

Rant over......

Ken

Must be a Ken thing as I do the same thing...even thinking about puting a torque tube on it! It is by far my most expensive heli...sigh...

Ken

[estarter]

Finally I got mine repaired, turned out to be all 3 cyclic servos gear are stripped, I hated that happened and always the gear below the servo arm mounting gear is missing couple teeth.

Now back in the air and flys great, I tried the same pitch curve (43-48-50-75-100; -9@ 0, +9 @100 and zero pitch at 50) with a flat 90% TC in ST1, great sport flying and can even do a big loop.

[John Shipley]

I am confused Estarter. Are you saying you have a pitch curve set up in your TX that is 43 in low position, 48, 50 75 and 100 and you measured your pitch on the heli and it is zero at mid stick, +9 at high stick and -9 at low stick?? If that is what you are saying, then there is something wrong. Either you have set up the IU switch to a different curve, 0-25-50-75-100, so it switches between the 2 curves.....in my DX 7 I have 3 adjustable switch positions. I can program the pitch or the curve in each switch position. Or the mechanics of the head are set up wrong.....or I misunderstood.......If your heli is set up normally 43 should give you around 3-4 degrees negitive....J

[DKS_ONE]

No he said -9 degrees at 0, +9 at 100 and 0 at 50

-9@ 0, +9 @100 and zero pitch at 50

He was just trying that pitch curve of 43,48,50,75,100 with 90 flat T/C and getting good results.

[John Shipley]

I see....I hope. He had the pitch curve and the degree of pitch in the same parentheses in his post, which lead me to conclude my question. I am glad that the universe is now back normal....whew....thanks for clearing it up.......J

[DKS_ONE]

Rofl, I know, I didn't get it at first, but maybe some more commas and such may have helped although he included a semi colon after the pitch curve he used before noting his total throw. That was what saved me hahaha!

[estarter]

Sorry for the confusion, tried to multi-task typing and flying, no, make it cooking together. LOL

Here's the test flight pitch curve in my DX8:

Norm and ST1 = 43 - 48 - 50 - 75 - 100
ST2 = 0 - 25 - 50 - 75 - 100 where -9 degree @ 0%, zero pitch @ 50%, +9 degree @ 100%

Thanks DKS_ONE, you can read my typing!

[John Shipley]

So getting back to our original thread starter, Ken, I would assume that since Estarter tried the the same curves and his heli performed correctly, that Ken's heli must have the head set up wrong.....ie, at low stick he has positive pitch instead of negitive. So where is Ken?? We are having fun with his thread, but it would be good to know if he solved the problem.........J

[DKS_ONE]

Post #12 he notes that it's fixed and he attached a link to a post-repair vid so it's all back together but doesn't answer what his head setup is... perhaps he'll grace us with his presence once more

[John Shipley]

Yes I saw that.....but his fix was to simply use a normal TC and not IU. So the heli would act like it was fixed, when it was not.......because he would be using throttle and pitch to raise and lower the heli not just pitch. I know we should just let it go, but I am curious. Sooner or later, if he tries anything in IU there may be another post about the crash.........J

[kenkadish]

Originally Posted by DKS_ONE

Post #12 he notes that it's fixed and he attached a link to a post-repair vid so it's all back together but doesn't answer what his head setup is... perhaps he'll grace us with his presence once more

Your wish is my command!

Lets review the bidding. Not the easiest thing to measure blade pitch with the SR due to the fact that I have no way to assure that the flybar is locked in place, but I'm doing the best with what I've got.

Please also remember that the SR was my first CP heli and that admonitions to the contrary, as a new pilot, I did not like a great amount of negative pitch.

Idle up blade pitch measures at

-4
2
6
11
13

Normal blade pitch measures at

5
6
6.5
11
13

Say what you wish, but I like to have liftoff around center stick and not much negative.

My original post indicated that I crossed my idle up TC of flat 100 with my normal pitch curve. Little wonder that I had an issue. When I fly with an idle up TC of flat 100 and a pitch curve of -4,2,6,11,13, there is no issue, BUT, when I combined a 5,6,6.5,11,13 PC with a flat 100 TC, that resulted in an up, up, and away experience.

In the OP, I wasn't trying to express disdain for the SR...rather trying to point out my stupidity in mixing these TC and PCs.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

Ken

[DKS_ONE]

Hey thanks Ken, that clears it all up. If that's your preference then that's your preference All good bro, happy flyin'! And keep those throttle curves straight! Hahahaha

[John Shipley]

So now we know......his heli was going up in IU at low stick because low stick was positive pitch.........I think we can put this to rest and go have a beer....I'll buy the first round........J