belt keeps coming off

[helihaven]

Originally Posted by Stevemech

I'm hoping Helihaven can make the stock pulley block work so it's easy to make bolt on replacements but if a redesign is needed I wouldn't mine a different pulley block, we will see what he comes up with,I'm sure there will be alot of pictures.
Steve

Lord knows what I'll send back to ya....been thinking on a secondary reduction unit and a smaller main pulley....once I get it in my hands no telling what all will happen to that poor heli...*grins*

with my 2 stage belt drive on my 450...the primary reduction is 4:1 and the secondary is 4:1 for a total of 16:1, the MAIN gear doesnt even stick out of the frame..diameter on the main pulley is only 36mm? we could also make a smaller tail drive pulley then be able to drop to a lower tooth count on the tail pulley like you and I hashed out the other day....more weight savings...

[Stevemech]

Cool
Steve

[helihaven]

Once she arrives...I'll take stock of what we have and your options..let you decide what ya want

[rallyant]

Is that all going to fit?
Every reduction will require another shaft, bearings and pullies = more weight?
I understand the advantages, but it seems unnecessary to complicate things?

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[helihaven]

Well...with fear of getting in trouble again...I look at it this way...the other option others are exploring is using an even larger "torquier" motor...to deal with the 8.4:1 drive ratio.
I read it was a gain of 28 grams I think over a scorpion 2221 series motor?
This solution is definately "one off" and may not be one steve even wants to explore, however, running a 17.2:1 ratio on my little 250 project...i can run just as well as a stock 250..but running a 130x sized motor...and it flys quite well for 14 minutes...motor is cool to the touch afterwards...if i run it on 3s..it's just pure insane..can get headspeeds on it close to 5000 rpm...lol and motor was only warm then....the little 10 amp esc is a little warmer though...

using a dual stage system will allow the use of a smaller faster motor...so any weight gains from the tranny will be reduced by using a smaller lighter motor, and the main gear can also be reduced in size....in this case by half.(tooth count -wise)...as both reduction units will be less than 6:1 it will be alot easier on all the moving parts involved...going over 12:1 with a single stage reduction can play havoc on the teeth...either on gears or belts...although i think belts stand up alot better myself...

[rallyant]

Interesting. Keen to see what you come up with...
Yes the compass motor is a fat, heavy and grunty one. I did put it on the scales and compare to the protos scorp 6s motor, can't remember off the top of my head but 26g sounds about right.

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[helihaven]

My very first gear reduction unit I made for my 450 with a 4mm outputshaft weighs 27.2 grams...and it was just thrown together for testing...so weight wouldnt increase..actually decrease because the main pulley would wind up being smaller as well...at the very least I could probably machine one from aluminum and it be stronger with the same weight...

[Luigi_tuga]

Dual stage is much more refined than the low cost solution of pinion+main gear.
Seems that Goblin is launching a 450 this year, and being the mechanics the same in all their range it will be the first 450 dual stage in the market!

[radu7]

Goblin is launching a 500 next month (at least I see preorders being taking for Feb Delivery). Hadn't heard they were also doing a 450. Any links?

[Jeff_Barrett]

Originally Posted by radu7

Goblin is launching a 500 next month (at least I see preorders being taking for Feb Delivery). Hadn't heard they were also doing a 450. Any links?

I heard there were a number of models coming out over the next year from SAB, the 400/450 was rumoured but details were very vague. I have a 700 coming in as a build to 'familarize' myself with them and gain PK before we start selling them. While I can appreciate that many like the esthetic styling - I personally am not a fan of it, but each to their own. The most important thing to me is that it flies well, it's reliable, and it's reasonably economical to repair.

The Compass Atom 500 is one of the best 500's around IMHO. It's stood the test of time and is incredibly reliable, hence why the design hasn't changed in so long and the forum is generally quiet.

Regardless, I think we might be getting a bit off topic here....

[Bob O]

I agree. Talk about the Goblin should be in a different forum.

[Stevemech]

Originally Posted by helihaven

My very first gear reduction unit I made for my 450 with a 4mm outputshaft weighs 27.2 grams...and it was just thrown together for testing...so weight wouldnt increase..actually decrease because the main pulley would wind up being smaller as well...at the very least I could probably machine one from aluminum and it be stronger with the same weight...

I like the idea of a much thinner heli and having the spinning parts more precise.Got pictures?Might be able to adapt to a narrow canopy!
Steve

[rallyant]

I agree. On a big heli. But I love the increased visibility on 350 size helis. Warp is the best yet, for this. Still eats the sky fast enough for me.

I have been designing a 350 size heli for almost a year now. Actually started 14 years ago! And I cant see how I could achieve all my design criteria if I went with duel stage. I understand the advantage of it, but, Getting the CG right was very hard, most 450 helis don't have the CG down the boom. Be OK on the warp layout, but be interesting to see how they go with the goblin

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[Luvmyhelis]

Well, certainly HH's gear system will be well thought out. We were exploring this almost a year back. The Goblin hadn't really entered the picture yet. I think we can mention it as it is just part of the equation of a way to get it done. One thing about the Goblin. The gear reduction system they use adds a ton of weight. Their 630 is rumored to be a pig. The 500? Heavy also. So I would expect their 450 to be the same.. Warp will def be lighter.

Steve will have HH's thoughts on the ultimate gearing mod that can be made for this heli. HH and I also talked about this earlier with mine. So now we will have three ways to mod the Warp. One, with the torque monster new Scorp motor. And the other using the standard 2200 can 450 motor just geared properly for it. Then the third option will be Helihavens Stevemech gearing mod. Should be fun to watch!

Good stuff! Gotta love modding!