Learning autorotation with electric heli

[hoverinabout]

OK, I guess the answer to the question 'how to learn auto's on an electric heli?' is twofold. One, learn on the sim and two, the same as on an ic machine!

But, although I have the Real Flight v4 sim, the tutorial for auto's is pretty poor and doesnt give you any time to move your finger from the throttle hold switch to the pitch before the heli hits the ground! In the tutorial, you cant set the height of the heli (well not what I can see) to give you that time as it all seems pre set.

Now, my actual hovering confidence and practise on the TRex 600 is going well. Im even hovering in reasonably gusty wind (up to 15mph). But, as Im sometimes 12 to 15 foot in the air, my thoughts turn to 'what if I need to auto? What do I do?'

Is it a question of hitting the throttle hold? Which way should you push or pull the pitch stick, away from you, towards you? Do you need a particular pitch curve set for throttle hold and auto's?

Can anyone talk me through set up and steps how to auto in easy terms?

TIA

[RogerRabit]

Google "curtis youngblood autorotation"

600 is easy to auto.

[ArchmageAU]

Electric 3D auto in a nutshell.

Pitch curve - ensure flying and hold pitch curves are linear (0,25,50,75,100).

An auto is a quick descent and land without the motor (OWB allows the blades to spin without the motor). The quick descent helps keep the blades spinning. Forward motion helps even more.

When descending, keep the rotor disc flat, but with negative collective (pushing DOWN). This keeps the blades spinning (Like blowing a fan). Keep forward momentum.

When near the ground pull back on the cyclic (nose-up). Do not change collective. This a flare. This stops the forward momentum, but increases blade speed. When no forward momentum. level the rotor disc off again for a straight descent.

Apply positive collective when very close to the ground to float down the last bit as the rotor slows.

Simple

[Bob O]

450 Pro Auto Video (4 min 57 sec)

[hoverinabout]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Electric 3D auto in a nutshell.

Pitch curve - ensure flying and hold pitch curves are linear (0,25,50,75,100).

An auto is a quick descent and land without the motor (OWB allows the blades to spin without the motor). The quick descent helps keep the blades spinning. Forward motion helps even more.

When descending, keep the rotor disc flat, but with negative collective (pushing DOWN). This keeps the blades spinning (Like blowing a fan). Keep forward momentum.

When near the ground pull back on the cyclic (nose-up). Do not change collective. This a flare. This stops the forward momentum, but increases blade speed. When no forward momentum. level the rotor disc off again for a straight descent.

Apply positive collective when very close to the ground to float down the last bit as the rotor slows.

Simple

This is a good concise explanation.

But, just to clarify, I fly with throttle on the left stick and elevator on the right. Im not totally clear which stick you refer to.

So, cyclic will be on my right stick (elevator?) with collective on my left (throttle) stick, yeah?

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by hoverinabout

This is a good concise explanation.

But, just to clarify, I fly with throttle on the left stick and elevator on the right. Im not totally clear which stick you refer to.

So, cyclic will be on my right stick (elevator?) with collective on my left (throttle) stick, yeah?

Cyclics is a combination of elevator and aileron. Mode 2, cyclics are on the right sitck, mode 1, elevator on left stick (forward/back), aileron on right stick (left/right). Throttle and collective are on the same stick (Mode 2, left. Mode 1, right).

So more Mode 2 (what I and most others here fly). Collective left, elevator right. Left stick slightly below mid point (-1 or -2 degrees collective) on descent, balance the disc with the right stick (ensure the heli has forward momentum). To flare, pull back on the right stick (elevator), nose goes up, DO NOT CHANGE COLLECTIVE YET (heli may even gain height as the forward momentum slows and rotor speed increases). Once all forward momentum gone (stationary in relation to ground), push right stick (elevator) forward to level heli again. Once heli level, then apply collective (push forward left stick) to float the last bit of descent (last couple of feet). Keep the heli balanced with cyclics (right stick).

Same again, but mode 1. Collective right, elevator left. Right stick slightly below mid point (-1 or -2 degrees collective) on descent, balance the disc with the left and right sticks (ensure the heli has forward momentum - elevator, left stick and rotor left/right balance - aileron, right stick). To flare, pull back on the left stick (elevator), nose goes up, DO NOT CHANGE COLLECTIVE YET (heli may even gain height as the forward momentum slows and rotor speed increases). Once all forward momentum gone (stationary in relation to ground), push left stick (elevator) forward to level heli again. Once heli level, then apply collective (push forward right stick) to float the last bit of descent (last couple of feet). Keep the heli balanced with cyclics (left stick forward back - elevator. right stick left/right - aileron).

Remember, all this happens very quickly faster than you can read either of the above scenarios aloud.

The real "tricks" to a good auto are:

• Listen to blades to gauge rotor speed. This is the best guide you have.
• Maintain head speed (forward speed, into wind, quick, but not too quick, even descent, leveled rotor disc). The smaller the heli, the faster the descent. (700's putter in, 450's look like a suicide run). Lose too much rotor speed close enough to the ground and it will be a crash, not an auto.
• Control descent to where you want to land (sounds obvious, but the part I find most challenging during a quick descent - X5 is a small 550 class so it comes in a little hot).
• Good flare to turn forward speed into rotor speed and stop heli relative to the ground (no sliding to prevent tipovers - unless deliberately trying to ski the heli to a stop). Remember, DO NOT ADD COLLECTIVE DURING FLARE. Flare should start at around 6 feet and may be quite abrupt (45 degrees or more for smaller helis is not uncommon). The smaler the heli, the more critical the timing due to speed and angle. This is the most nerve racking part of learning autos. Too late, you plow in. Too early, and you may not maintain enough rotor speed to float the landing. If you are early, sometimes maintaining (or slightly increasing) the negative collective till the last second may keep enough blade speed even in an extended vertical descent to allow a safe landing (try avoid this though). Too much negative collective can reduce head speed, so listen carefully for the rotor speed.
• Only applying positive collective when almost on the ground (float the last few inches before running out of head speed (and lift)).

Hope this helps and makes it clearer.

(not going to touch turning, inverted or dismount autos yet).

[RogerRabit]

You do Autos IRL now with your new Bird, ArchmageAU?

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by RogerRabit

You do Autos IRL now with your new Bird, ArchmageAU?

Yes.

Last one cored a pitch link (one end now loose on the ball at the swash end) due to a tip-over. Landed too far away from me to see properly. (Wind was coming head on, so flying forward away from me for landing instead of the usual practiced sideways).

Should have it repaired when I get home (part ordered - on holiday at the moment), then more IRL practice (and more sim practice).

[sl4ppy]

A 600 will auto all day long.

It's VERY good practice to learn to auto very early in your flying as you are doing, so big kudos on that. I know LOTS of pilots who have flown for years and are still afraid to auto.

First, your post made me think you are having trouble hitting throttle hold.. You should be able to hit the switch with your pinky or some other finger without ever letting go of either stick. If you have to let go of a stick to hit the switch, you need to break that habit fast and build the muscle memory of using another finger FAST. It is a key skill, not just for auto's but when you lose control as well.

Here's what I recommend for learning autos in real life. It's great practice, easy to do, and you don't risk much damage to your heli. First make sure you have 0 pitch at midstick for both your idle 1 AND your throttle hold.. This is critical so that the heli doesn't jump up or down when you hit throttle hold.

Bring your 600 up to a hover about 1 foot off the ground. Hit throttle hold and try to just keep the heli in the air as long as you possibly can. This will require feeding in collective (push the left stick up) very slowly to counteract the heli falling. Eventually you will run out of collective (cant move the stick any more) and the heli will just be touching the ground at the same time.

You might have a tip-over from time to time, but in all likelihood, there won't be any damage since the blades are spinning so slowly.

Do that a bunch to get a feel for how much collective you need to feed in. After you're comfortable with that, start moving higher to about waist hight but instead of keeping the heli in the same spot, you want to have it fall very slowly and under control. Then try eye-ball height, etc., and before you know it, you're auto-ing perfectly.

[hoverinabout]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Cyclics is a combination of elevator and aileron. Mode 2, cyclics are on the right sitck, mode 1, elevator on left stick (forward/back), aileron on right stick (left/right). Throttle and collective are on the same stick (Mode 2, left. Mode 1, right).

So more Mode 2 (what I and most others here fly). Collective left, elevator right. Left stick slightly below mid point (-1 or -2 degrees collective) on descent, balance the disc with the right stick (ensure the heli has forward momentum). To flare, pull back on the right stick (elevator), nose goes up, DO NOT CHANGE COLLECTIVE YET (heli may even gain height as the forward momentum slows and rotor speed increases). Once all forward momentum gone (stationary in relation to ground), push right stick (elevator) forward to level heli again. Once heli level, then apply collective (push forward left stick) to float the last bit of descent (last couple of feet). Keep the heli balanced with cyclics (right stick).

Same again, but mode 1. Collective right, elevator left. Right stick slightly below mid point (-1 or -2 degrees collective) on descent, balance the disc with the left and right sticks (ensure the heli has forward momentum - elevator, left stick and rotor left/right balance - aileron, right stick). To flare, pull back on the left stick (elevator), nose goes up, DO NOT CHANGE COLLECTIVE YET (heli may even gain height as the forward momentum slows and rotor speed increases). Once all forward momentum gone (stationary in relation to ground), push left stick (elevator) forward to level heli again. Once heli level, then apply collective (push forward right stick) to float the last bit of descent (last couple of feet). Keep the heli balanced with cyclics (left stick forward back - elevator. right stick left/right - aileron).

Remember, all this happens very quickly faster than you can read either of the above scenarios aloud.

The real "tricks" to a good auto are:

• Listen to blades to gauge rotor speed. This is the best guide you have.
• Maintain head speed (forward speed, into wind, quick, but not too quick, even descent, leveled rotor disc). The smaller the heli, the faster the descent. (700's putter in, 450's look like a suicide run). Lose too much rotor speed close enough to the ground and it will be a crash, not an auto.
• Control descent to where you want to land (sounds obvious, but the part I find most challenging during a quick descent - X5 is a small 550 class so it comes in a little hot).
• Good flare to turn forward speed into rotor speed and stop heli relative to the ground (no sliding to prevent tipovers - unless deliberately trying to ski the heli to a stop). Remember, DO NOT ADD COLLECTIVE DURING FLARE. Flare should start at around 6 feet and may be quite abrupt (45 degrees or more for smaller helis is not uncommon). The smaler the heli, the more critical the timing due to speed and angle. This is the most nerve racking part of learning autos. Too late, you plow in. Too early, and you may not maintain enough rotor speed to float the landing. If you are early, sometimes maintaining (or slightly increasing) the negative collective till the last second may keep enough blade speed even in an extended vertical descent to allow a safe landing (try avoid this though). Too much negative collective can reduce head speed, so listen carefully for the rotor speed.
• Only applying positive collective when almost on the ground (float the last few inches before running out of head speed (and lift)).

Hope this helps and makes it clearer.

(not going to touch turning, inverted or dismount autos yet).

Excellent explanation. Thank you

[hoverinabout]

Originally Posted by sl4ppy

A 600 will auto all day long.

It's VERY good practice to learn to auto very early in your flying as you are doing, so big kudos on that. I know LOTS of pilots who have flown for years and are still afraid to auto.

First, your post made me think you are having trouble hitting throttle hold.. You should be able to hit the switch with your pinky or some other finger without ever letting go of either stick. If you have to let go of a stick to hit the switch, you need to break that habit fast and build the muscle memory of using another finger FAST. It is a key skill, not just for auto's but when you lose control as well.

Here's what I recommend for learning autos in real life. It's great practice, easy to do, and you don't risk much damage to your heli. First make sure you have 0 pitch at midstick for both your idle 1 AND your throttle hold.. This is critical so that the heli doesn't jump up or down when you hit throttle hold.

Bring your 600 up to a hover about 1 foot off the ground. Hit throttle hold and try to just keep the heli in the air as long as you possibly can. This will require feeding in collective (push the left stick up) very slowly to counteract the heli falling. Eventually you will run out of collective (cant move the stick any more) and the heli will just be touching the ground at the same time.

You might have a tip-over from time to time, but in all likelihood, there won't be any damage since the blades are spinning so slowly.

Do that a bunch to get a feel for how much collective you need to feed in. After you're comfortable with that, start moving higher to about waist hight but instead of keeping the heli in the same spot, you want to have it fall very slowly and under control. Then try eye-ball height, etc., and before you know it, you're auto-ing perfectly.

Another great explanation. Thank you.

[sl4ppy]

Originally Posted by hoverinabout

Another great explanation. Thank you.

No problem! Auto's are one of the most fun things to do, imho, once you master them. They are very easy to do, and get a lot of "wow!"s for not much effort.

Also, this might help a TON. Well worth the $1.69

http://www.smacktalkrc.com/archives/728

[arefim]

Thanks ArchmageAu for your clear explaination.This is the most helpful description I have read.I always like to read your comments as they are always very precise and clear.I'm wondering how did you educate yourself about all issues related to our hobby.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by arefim

Thanks ArchmageAu for your clear explaination.This is the most helpful description I have read.I always like to read your comments as they are always very precise and clear.I'm wondering how did you educate yourself about all issues related to our hobby.

You are welcome.

My major research for this hobby is HeliFreak and internet. I strive to gain a clear understanding of how each component works, how they relate to each other. This involved research into aeronautical engineering (how and why helicopters can fly, blade aerodynamics (lift, drag, blade chord, etc..), moments, torque, etc..), electrical engineering (battery technologies (Lipo, LiFe, etc..), charging, resistance, motor specifications, servos, FBL, PID systems, etc...) and flying technique (hovering, translational lift, manoeuvres, etc..)

I approach from a physics and heavy maths background, even though I am a high end IT specialist by trade (this is why I travel a lot). This trade forces me to explain highly technical concepts in a simplified manner to enable my work to continue. I just bring this research and explanation skills to a hobby I enjoy and try give back to a community that has given me so much.

(Being borderline OCD helps. I must keep going on something till I understand it in a way I can explain it to Joe Average. Most of the people here are well above Joe Average If I find a term I do not understand, I must research it till I could explain it to my 10yo daughter. - Consequently I keep a log of references to my research so I can help with explanations)

I do not expect others to follow this hobby with my level of passion, but I will help others any way I can.