The 3GX is dangerously crap

[Dino Spadaccini]

First lets address the take off if the heli starts to wobble bad on take off please lower the gain on the pots to about 10 oclock

also before the crash you take about in this thread have you had any issues or crashs before this


please flash to 3.1 and do your dir tail and throttle cal bench test to make sure everything is ok and do a test hover also what esc and bec are you using

Dino

[smeggy]

Sorry for not using quote tags, I'm lazy


@ Dino,

I’ve had issues from day 1.
Heli didn’t wobble on take-off; all was perfectly fine.
I had even lowered the pot gain just in case (both aileron and elevator)

@ ferebeed,

If my 3GX design isn’t right, then my heli also won’t like it.

@ dwdw910,

Your logic doesn’t follow; questions to you were not addressed. You are not in a position to suggest that I don’t know what I am talking about.
I realise you have offered your help, and I respect that you did, but be clear that I did not ask for it. I am savvy enough to understand.
And you end with your silly comment: “you don’t want to fix your helicopter”; your post is personal and destructive.
You have given your opinion, so let’s leave it that that. Please resist posting.


@ MaceH,

My ESC is the RCE-BL35P, which has the switching BEC. It is good for 3A continuous and 5A burst. It is plenty enough for all the servos in worst case conditions, I have tested for this. See, I really do like Align products Saying that, the motor was greatly unbalanced resulting with quite severe vibration, it visibly failed the ‘marker pen’ test; I had to change it.


@ Bonkievan,

Again I must accept your logic. However, I expect a lot from this premium product. My own experiences with many other 3 and 6 axis controllers do not marry up with the Align. I have done many really nasty things with the various planes and quadcopters I have (blasting through obstacle courses is soooo much fun), smashing on concrete, and some were only £30 all in (including Tx and postage - sent within the UK). Yet I have never, ever, managed to “toast” any gyro.

Also,
My friend’s (also a keen engineer) 450DFC also has issues. Notwithstanding the case of his 3GX is somehow connected to an internal 3V3 rail, his also doesn’t fly right. He found it kept tipping over when spooling up. Examination revealed his chopper swashplate develops a drift when the motor is spinning (recovers when the motor is off), and he had used both anti-vibration mounting pads, and it wasn’t cold. His also had the V3 firmware. Anyway, the point here is that his 3GX also has problems, just like mine did from day 1 (which I fixed). From our point of view, that 2 for 2 against the 3GX.

[Bonkievan]

Well, I think you've made your decision........
......my vote would be the Hc3sx

Seriously though, that's a shame. The 3gx really is a great unit now >v3.0. However, each to their own and it appears youve really tried to 'make it work', just not 3gx bash from the outset

It does seem odd you can't replicate on the bench though????

Be that as it may, Im still leaning towards a power/BEC issue into the 3gx. There was a thread a while ago where the member had all the same trouble you described, all the same troubleshooting, power tests etc and put an external BEC in.......voila, problem gone.

[Dino Spadaccini]

well if you had an issue from day one then you should have contacted your LHS or DIS and asked for help that should have been your due course coming out and bash not cool we have service on all our products

Dino

[jcwing123]

Out flying my 450 and 3GX today after figuring it all out and getting it operating correctly. It flies very well with version 3.1 so far as I can see. No issues thus far.

Diving into FBL was definitely an experience, but it's one dive I'm VERY glad I took. The stability between FBL and FB is night and day. I LOVE IT!

I even ran the batt down to cut-out and there was no brown-out with my Align ESC at all.

[smeggy]

Originally Posted by Dino Spadaccini

well if you had an issue from day one then you should have contacted your LHS or DIS and asked for help that should have been your due course coming out and bash not cool we have service on all our products

It is reasonable to provide reasoned feedback on products.

What is "not cool" is expecting users to put up and shut up when they find out the expensive/dangerous way about these flaws. You surely can't be surprised when people complain when there is a bug that results with their prized new product self-destructing.

[dwdw910]

Originally Posted by smeggy

OK. Please participate in this one and educate me.

How can I go about fixing this particular problem?


You seem to be focusing on my mechanical setup; it could be said that if anyone has their heart sat on anything, it is you on that.
So can you also tell me why, both times, the problem ceased when I recycled the power on the chopper? (and I even managed to fly normally afterwards)
Simply recycling the chopper power cannot have fixed any faulty hardware setup; this obviously eliminates your suggestions of “damaged servo lead, servo, slightly bent part, bad bearing”, so what can the “or something” possibly be?


Be aware! I am a very experienced and respected electronics design engineer (so good that I directly manage a large team of hardware and software design engineers), and I have a really good grasp of the other sciences, many design patents in my name, etc. I have even made my own gyro controller mixers (everything from reading in and filtering the PPM from the RX and reading in gyro voltages, to controlling the PWM for the motors, including assembly software and drivers – all conceived, designed and made from scratch), so I kinda understand these things. I will understand anything you explain.

You clearly did ask for my help. Its highlighted from your own posting.

I will not try to reason with or help you anymore though.

I can see that you have it all figured out.

[smeggy]

Originally Posted by Bonkievan

Be that as it may, Im still leaning towards a power/BEC issue into the 3gx. There was a thread a while ago where the member had all the same trouble you described, all the same troubleshooting, power tests etc and put an external BEC in.......voila, problem gone.

I've just tried it.
Using a mains powered linear PSU (6 amp rated):
All 4 servos hard stalled: 3.3A @ 4.75V at the servos, current reduces with reduced voltage.
3GX starts misbehaving (all servos going crazy) at 3.9V, taking 1A; gives up at 3.5V.

Vibration and cold temp causes elevator judder and drift (my original problem).
Firmware V3.1

I'm not leaning with you.... Perhaps if the BEC was linear (overheating) ......
Even if you were right, this goes to show the overall product still wasn't quite fit for purpose anyway.

[smeggy]

Originally Posted by dwdw910

You clearly did ask for my help. Its highlighted from your own posting.

I will not try to reason with or help you anymore though.

You are right, I did eventually, but that was later on. But yes, I am being a bit unfair there.


To be fair to me: you never reasoned. Instead you offered only some convoluted correlations:

Originally Posted by dwdw910

I had to replace some bearings, the torque tube and really go through it meticulously. Now it flies perfect again.
...
I reflashed the software... and guess what? Its gone.

Yet with the latter: you "know it is not the 3GX" ?!?


At least we agree on one thing:

Originally Posted by dwdw910

The 3GX is very sensitive to vibration and the result is that it will aileron off on its own

... even with a newly flashed, fresh uncrashed helicopter.

I have currently own (and crashed) 8 3/6 axis stabilised, motorised flying machines. The 3GX is the only one that I've ever had this problem with, and it even does it straight out of the bloody box! And my friend's 3GX does it too, so badly that he REFUSES to fly it!

[koppterx]

contrary to popular myth, the 3gx is not overly sensitive to vibration, at least not the high frequenncy kind that we get on electric or nitro helis. drift is not caused by vibration. drift is caused by the unit thinking that it is correcting unwanted movement, and for that to happen, a long time bias has to be fed into the 3GX processsor, and that is not the result of vibration. I have flown 3GX units on both nitro and a 550 with severe vibrations and the heli remained perfectly composed. To declare a product as dangerous should be prefaced with some serious research, not some off the cuff experience or what you believe. While not everyone embraces the 3GX, there are plenty of happy users and there has been nothing in my years of tinkering with them on my own or other's helis that would question reliability.

if one, let alone all servos are stalled, do you really give a --- what the 3gx is doing?

[jcwing123]

I agree. in my very short time using the 3GX (I'm new to FBL) my 450 had some serious vibration due to a mistake I made setting it up and the 3GX never freaked out at all. After reading all the hype about the 3GX and vibration, I was just waiting for a crash.

It didn't happen. I love the 3GX.

[marke]

I have to ask what did Align say about this? did you try to discuss this with there tech support?

[Pard]

Originally Posted by Dino Spadaccini

well if you had an issue from day one then you should have contacted your LHS or DIS and asked for help that should have been your due course coming out and bash not cool we have service on all our products

Dino

Thanks Dino.

I actually did request an RMA from Align USA via email, but did not hear back yet.

I employ software engineers, and I fully understand how a bug can appear in software that may never been seen by most, but if the type of bug is reported repeatedly, it cannot be dismissed and must be found and corrected.

I have been using 4 separate 3GX units on 450, 500, 600 and 700 machines pretty much since they came out. Until the past few weeks I have never had any trouble, and never saw any of the reported issues. My builds and maintenance are average. I use external BEC's, and make sure bearing are smooth and moving parts balanced.

Since moving to version 3.1, I have experienced the same problems described here, but only in my 500 size helis, the problems come and go, and occurred on 2 separate units. That may point to the particular heli/unit interaction. I can only replace and rebalance every moving part, but at some point, the time/cost becomes unreasonable for my taste. I am sure as the software matures and advances, they will work perfectly for even the most average of heli conditions. Right now, that is not the case it seems.

Statistically speaking, the reported failure rates may be very small, but I have no doubt that they are real. Many failures are captured on video on helis that are flown by good pilots on helis that seem to be in healthy condition. This will eventually go away, but it is part of the adventure with the state of the art today.

Bottom line, for me at least, is that the experience of loss of control makes me nervous, I have rebuilt, reflashed, isolated variables as far as I can, etc., with no luck. So I have moved on to other units.

Everyone has that choice, and obviously most people enjoy their 3GX units very much, as I have until recently.

This hobby, by definition, is experimental, expect the surprises, and manage the risk.

FWIW, I have tried the BRAIN which works very well on the helis in question that caused me problems with the 3GX, but the Brain has me frustrated with some of their functions as well.

[Bee_random]

My 2c, FWIW.

No smoke without fire. Having recently done a fair bit of general research, this is the only unit that creates such a noise about reliability. Possibly this has been fixed in later updates, but I've got to think that the 3G brand has been tarnished beyond repair and Align would need to completely repackage this to recover.

I recently bought a Protos second hand that came with the 3G. As soon as I posted to ask what folk thought of the setup (Protos forum), I got feedback to change this out for a different controller without delay. I did fly it, but the controls were not to my liking and I've swapped it out for a ZYX. I'm going to fit the 3G to my 450 as it's there and I can... Hence still watching this forum.

I suppose the point of posting is to say that for the cost of this unit I would expect a lot more. There are many more products out there that offer better value for money and have a significantly better reputation for interface and reliability. Time for Align to rethink their strategy here.

[13kawasaki13]

I've had similar problems and I fixed it by adding two pieces of double sided tape between the 3gx and the heli and it has to be the tape that has the foam in the middle this helps isolate the 3gx from vibration

[tkranz]

No point in arguing with a determined 3GX hater. Every pilot should find and use equipment that makes him have confidence in his machine.

I've put on 522 flights with my 450 Pro with 3GX and had about 20 crashes and rebuilds during that time. Wide variety of reasons for crashes, but NONE - - - ZERO - - were due to unexplained controller problems. Always dumb thumb or mechanical failure. I also have a new 500 DFC with 3GX - one crash due to mechanical failure.

I am very happy with 3GX!

[krauley]

Originally Posted by Bee_random

My 2c, FWIW.

No smoke without fire. Having recently done a fair bit of general research, this is the only unit that creates such a noise about reliability. Possibly this has been fixed in later updates, but I've got to think that the 3G brand has been tarnished beyond repair and Align would need to completely repackage this to recover.

I recently bought a Protos second hand that came with the 3G. As soon as I posted to ask what folk thought of the setup (Protos forum), I got feedback to change this out for a different controller without delay. I did fly it, but the controls were not to my liking and I've swapped it out for a ZYX. I'm going to fit the 3G to my 450 as it's there and I can... Hence still watching this forum.

I suppose the point of posting is to say that for the cost of this unit I would expect a lot more. There are many more products out there that offer better value for money and have a significantly better reputation for interface and reliability. Time for Align to rethink their strategy here.

3G is not = to 3GX just in case you are posting about the 3G and not 3GX.

[MaceH]

I have two 3gx flying flawlessly, and 2 of the 3g.

So 4 of 4 flawless for me, if anyone is counting... but I did do the esd mods to the 3gx just out of paranoia.

I'm planning on putting a 3g in a 700e fbl conversion- any reason not to use that?

[MaceH]

Oh yes, am running redundant power to the latest 700e v2 just assembled- power goes into the 3gx on four plugs.

Basically a cc bec pro fed by one of the 6s batteries, and a 1450mah LiFe, both into a batt share, then into the 3gx.

Other 3gx is 700e dfc hv so is 2s lipo non-redundant but four power leads also into the 3gx.

Cannot stress enough powering the 3gx/whatever with more than one power lead- servo connectors are not very robust imo.

[blade450]

Brr... Figured I'd take a look here, see where 3gx is at.
Seems like not much has changed.
Seriously guys. Any FBL system that has to be recalibrated after a hard landing, will go straight into the trash for me. I have never used 3gx, and never had this kind of problems. I have crashed to the point of rekitting and still never had to recalibrate....
I'm out of here, I know enough......

That being said. I applaud all the people that try to help people here. Keep it up, I guess if it is your cup of tea you can enjoy the 3gx. I always apreciate people helping each other out.

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