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Old 12-09-2009, 12:27 AM   #1
OICU812
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Default Flybarless Protos, share your files and your notes on your setups :)

For those who own a Protos, thinking of using Mikado Mini Stabi this is for you....

I have not had a ton of time on this, but I definetely got it feeling better then one on MSH site, IMHO of course, please feel free to comment on your thoughts.

As a disclaimer to all of you I will describe my setup, if you are running different servos, blades, etc expect "varied" results. However the basic file I will share will get 90% of the people to the races fast. I will include as much info as possible for those who are thinking of Mini Stabi to get theirs going as fast as possible. For those of you using either of these files it is up to "YOU" to ensure 100% that everything is working properly I take no responsibilty for you not doing so.

Here are some build notes and directions on channels with the Mini Stabi

Some things to note up front I found.

1.) If using a pack 400 grams or heavier you MUST put esc on the bottom shelf to get good COG, remember this heli like a Logo has an elevated rake, so skids are not determining of COG when checking, by doing this of course the Mini Stabi MUST be on the boom block, wires facing main shaft is certainly best.

2.) Wires for esc lead and tr gyro routed on sides of the boom block, opening is visible and stays away from the pullies.

3.) By sanding lightly the portion of boom where tr case and boom block contacts boom and using the conductive boom block by MSH I got continuity from motor mount all way to tr shaft, no wire or other mods. If you do not have the conductive tr boom block then advise to ground wire from boom to the side of one of the bolts that go through boom block, check for your continuity.

4.) Channels are as follows, looking from back of helicopter, nose forward, elevator front servo = channel 1 in mini, Ail left servo = ch3, ail right = ch2, rudder of course is rudder. Note in my sharing files the expo is set to linear, meaning if you decide to use these files use "YOUR" tx expos, my Aileron and Elevator expos are 25% and TR is 27% in my TX. If you choose to set expo in software, then remember to not have any in your TX please. Adjust to the feel "YOU" like. And speaking of "feel" you will note my stick response is aggressive, as that is what "I' like, you may prefer normal etc, it's all about the feeling you prefer to your style is all.

5.) Note on mini stabi your trims will be much more in subtrim then in normal vstabi, like 11-20 depending on pots in DX7, also your endpoints could end up being 110-120, in TX only ch 2, 4 are reversed, rest are all normal. Note* at middle stick look at throttle channel on exp tx calibration, you may need to subtrim that as well to get zero, think I had 17 or something. These are near the values you'll probably see for subtrim in your tx here... http://vstabi.de/wiki/index.php?titl...mit_Satelliten


6. ) I am 16.3mm out on stock 6 point futaba horn, setting these and finding one best to 90 is best done before mounting servos in the servo brick of the Protos, otherwise impossible. I tried 14mm and 16.3 is the one you want to use to get best cyclic and collective feel, note my cyclic ring and cyclic gain, you do not want to adjust these on the model as outside of those paramters gives wierd feeling due to Protos geometry, use your cyclic agility etc on main page for faster and feel.

7.) On tail I used stock tr ball distance, this works well it seems.

8.) Details of gear I am using, please note these files based on "THIS" equipment that I list!


I am using 9650 on cyclic, and BLS 251 on tail. Scorpion 880kv motor, stock 15T pinion, and 75% on Jazz 80-6-18, heatplate side upwards remember.
I suggest when you do bind process to use a rx battery and not your main battery as sometimes you may see a spool up you are not ready for, remember once you have all your TX calibrated to zero on sticks, all your endpoints done etc, remember you MUST rebind again so the mini knows your centers or it will piro unlevel and wierd like. I suggest also on your tail to set about 3-4 degrees of bite while in setup mode as that seems to be the centering find.

Also to add to this, do ensure on setup page to do your fine top and bottom collective trim as well, as this geometry kicks outs abit and could give funny tic tocs, so on your setup with a swash level tool ensure you are dead level, bottom full negative, middle and top.

Files are: Basic is toned down abit for a start for people using different servos, blades etc and will need to be tuned up for your liking with your "other" gear. Advanced is using same equipment as I am using at the distances and config mentioned here and for people who already deal with vbar stuff and know what they are doing from the get go. Users may reference either, differences are small but yet effective for more experienced pilots.


Hope this helps to jump start a few peeps looking at going FBL with mini on their Protos, cheers.

Thx to Mr.Mel for some advisement on some tunings as well.
Attached Files
File Type: vbr Protos INT Share basic.txt.vbr (5.6 KB, 381 views)
File Type: vbr Protos INT Share advanced.txt.vbr (5.6 KB, 341 views)
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Last edited by OICU812; 12-09-2009 at 10:22 PM.. Reason: sticky
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:29 AM   #2
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BTW.

I simply do not have time to walk people through any more steps then I mention. If this is in fact your first shot at Vbar, I HIGHLY suggest the first thing you do is watch the videos at the vstabi site, they walk you through every step of the way!

Here is link to the videos I speak of.

http://vstabi.de/
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:08 AM   #3
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I've attached mine as well. I've tuned and tweaked it last few weeks for my style of flying.

MiniV
MKS 9670 Cyclic at 16.5mm out
MKS 8910 at 10mm out
DX7 radio

It's pretty similar to what OICU ended up with.

I ended up with a cyclic gain on the setup screen of 100 (vs 92) when I did the cyclic gain calculator on vstabi.de.

My rudder adjustments and gain is higher than OICU due to the ball being 10mm out on the tail servo.

I have less acceleration (but still higher than the stock 55) on tail rotor since going too high got me a bounce on tail stops.

Most everything else is the same or similar.

I have stick response at aggressive as does he and no pitch pump.
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File Type: vbr moshprotosv6.txt.vbr (5.6 KB, 232 views)
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:58 AM   #4
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OICU/Mosh,
A huge thanks for posting these files and providing a wealth of great tips. This is espeacially valuable coming from extremely competent pilots. I'm a FBL n00b and posts like these really help as I go through the FBL conversion. We should really get a sticky post going with working fbl configs a tips for those that follow us.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:59 AM   #5
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Mine is on the stabi forum, including details.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:23 AM   #6
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Link?
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:43 AM   #7
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http://www.vstabi.de/

then on forum>setups.

So far its running great, only the tail needs some finer fine tuning.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:09 PM   #8
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Ya if u guys would like can change to protos vbar files and tips and have sticky? If that's ur wish it's no problem.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:46 PM   #9
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With so many of us going fbl on the protos a sticky would be a great idea, easy to find and a great reference point.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:19 PM   #10
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OICU,
A sticky would be great. Since MSH now has an off the shelf $50 conversion, the Protos will become a very hot FBL option for many. We're the early pioneers. The easier we make it, the more Proti will sell, and we'll all benefit from this.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:23 PM   #11
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Done! Changed title to accomadate those who also may wish to share their AC3X, Gyrobot, Skookum, Align flybarless configs as well, this should please everyone, be well.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:44 PM   #12
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I run my Protos happily with a "normal" V-Stabi 4.0... THIS MACHINE ROCKS!!! It's even better than my Logo 500 at the moment.
I did a selfmade conversion: Aluminium blade grips with Align balls, prolonged balls on the outer ring of the SP, Mikado SP-carrier, and a bit more space above and below the servoarm in my frame, using a dremel...
The sensor sits just there, where a gyro belongs. The v-bar-unit is under the RX in the frame. This works well, although everything is a bit narrow... Worst thing is, that the USB is hard to reach. But as my Protos works so extremly well, there's no need to change anything!
At the moment, there is no possibility fo me to read out the file and post it here - but I will do so on weekend! PROMISSED!!
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chorge View Post
I run my Protos happily with a "normal" V-Stabi 4.0... THIS MACHINE ROCKS!!! It's even better than my Logo 500 at the moment.
I did a selfmade conversion: Aluminium blade grips with Align balls, prolonged balls on the outer ring of the SP, Mikado SP-carrier, and a bit more space above and below the servoarm in my frame, using a dremel...
The sensor sits just there, where a gyro belongs. The v-bar-unit is under the RX in the frame. This works well, although everything is a bit narrow... Worst thing is, that the USB is hard to reach. But as my Protos works so extremly well, there's no need to change anything!
At the moment, there is no possibility fo me to read out the file and post it here - but I will do so on weekend! PROMISSED!!
What do you like about it better than your Logo 500?
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:35 PM   #14
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It has more power, is faster, and is more precise. The last point is definitly, because my V-Bar-settings are better on the protos, than on my Logo. But I have to say, that the Logo has only 20 flights yet, so that the V-Bar might be not adjusted perfectly yet...
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:16 AM   #15
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well we'll get that handled for you quick man, the 500 is definetly as precise and snappy once some tweaking done, my protos is only a smaller version really in power to weight feel etc...
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:31 PM   #16
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thank you all for you the tips and config files. im running the same equipment setup as OICU812 with the difference in motor being stock motor and esc being jive. while im using OICU812's advance config, im trying to figure out a weird problem i have setting up the blade pitch.

i use this swash leveling tool to level the swashplate http://www.experiencerc.com/store/20...os-p-2949.html. in the v-stabi software i used the swash leveling options to make sure swashplate is level at 0 stick, low stick, high stick. then i put on the head, the blades and went on to setup the blade pitch. i zero my digital angle gauge on the boom, and then set it on one of the blade to make sure that blade is at 0 pitch at mid stick. then i decided to put that gauge on the other blade, and it measured -5 degree pitch! so i kept the gauge on that blade, and slowly swing the blades around, the pitch changed from that -5 to 0 when the blade gets to the opposing side. which leaves me to think that somehow elevator was not leveled. but i already made sure everything was leveled using the leveling tool. it was late last night, so i left it be and went to bed.
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:30 AM   #17
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Make sure you are in setup mode when checking pitch.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:32 PM   #18
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yea, it was in setup mode when i measured the pitch. been pretty busy these few days with the holidays, havent had a chance revisit it.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:40 PM   #19
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Did you ever find out why you have pitch diff in the one blade? I am wondering as I am about to do a FBL Protos and trying to find out every thing I can about it first.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:29 PM   #20
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Protos, Scorpion 3026-880, Jeti Spin 66, Jeti Duplex R6, AC-3X, MKS9660 x3, tail Futaba BLS251. (my front servo is on the right side and the tail is on the left side of the heli)

This was the setup for the 1.3 version AC-3X.

Reg. Swash setup: Proportional gain 50, Integral gain 60, Look ahead gain 75, Integral limit 50, Hoovering stability 2D
Reg. Tail setup: Proportial gain 50, Integral gain 55, Cycl. DMA gain -40, Pitch DMA -45, Smooth stop 60, Smooth acceleration 50.

Swash setup: Pitch mixer 65, Aileron mixer 90, Elevator mixer 90, servo 1 angle 0, servo 2 angle 2, servo 3 angle 240, swash rotation 0, swash mixer yes.

Servo setup: Zero: tail 0, 1 -80, 2 -50, 3 -45
Reverse: 1 nor, 2 nor, 3 inv
Travel: 1 1200, 2 1200, 3 1200
Limit: TailA 950, TailB 950, 1A 1400, 1B 1400, 2A 1400, 2B 1400, 3A 1400, 3B 1400
Type: Tail 3, Swash frequency 200

Sensor setup: Aileron inv, Elevon inv, Tail inv, Axis rotation nor, vib level 1, sensor tolerance 10

Stick setup: Tail expo 30, Swash expo 45, Tail dyn 20, Tail dead 5, Swash dead 5, Sick tolerance 10.
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