Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > MSH Protos


MSH Protos MSH Protos Helicopter Support Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2011, 11:28 AM   #41
whisperdancer
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,865
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Porto, Portugal
Default

No. It's not necessary to level the arms. The arms are there just to carry the inner part of the swash. Nothing more. They have absolutely no effect on the geometry of the head.
As example, the first FBL upgrade didn't even had moving arms...
__________________
MSH Prtos CF FBL Stretch - Scorpion 880KV, YGE 60A, 3x s9650, BLS251, VBar 5.1
E-flite HABU 32
Ikarus EXTRemA 330S
Multiplex Parkmaster 3D
whisperdancer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 02:19 PM   #42
terrabit
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,006
 

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Seattle
Default

It may not be necessary to level the arms but it absolutely does affect geometry. Best case scenario, there would be no slop between the inner swash and the head, the swash to blade grip link rods would be perfectly parallel at all times. The function of the swash driver is to accomplish this by minimizing deviation between the inner swash and head thereby maintaining ideal geometric uniformity. It cannot do this perfectly because some slop exists, particularly at extremes of throw. This is true of the original design and the current design. It is true of all swash drivers that I've worked with to some degree. Some are definitely better than others in managing this mechanical limitation but, none do it perfectly. Because some slop exists, some phasing error will also exist. If the mixing arms are not level at zero pitch it would then follow that the degree of deviation would not be in balance. Again, phasing error will manifest itself as nonaxial rotation.
__________________
vbar T700E v2 DFC head, Pyro 700-45L, Jive 120HV, BLS451/BLS251, Edge 693/115
vbar CF Protos Scorp 3026-880kv, Ice lite 75, 9650/BLS251, SAB 430/KBDD 82
terrabit is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 02:54 PM   #43
whisperdancer
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,865
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Porto, Portugal
Default

That would happen if not if they weren't level at 0, but if they weren't symetrical.
In the current situation, is like you do everything but with a negatove pitch. If this was a problem, every heli would have problems unless it was at 0 pitch.
__________________
MSH Prtos CF FBL Stretch - Scorpion 880KV, YGE 60A, 3x s9650, BLS251, VBar 5.1
E-flite HABU 32
Ikarus EXTRemA 330S
Multiplex Parkmaster 3D
whisperdancer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 05:22 PM   #44
Thunder Fighter
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

I'm a bit confused by what you are saying Terrabit, why would any slop be symmetrical if the arms are level at 0 deg and not be symmetrical if not? The load is in the same direction regardless of the position of the arms and they can only move in one plane.

I have other heli's where the arms are not level at 0 degrees and don't have any phasing probles with multiple stationary flips.

//Dennis.
__________________
SAB Goblin 500 x 2 : SAB Goblin 700 : SAB Goblin 770C : Jeti DS-16
Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600 : CYE Stingray

Team RCBits | SAB & KBDD Field Rep | www.rcbits.com.au
Thunder Fighter is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 08:53 PM   #45
terrabit
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,006
 

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Seattle
Default

Actually ... you're right. The load would come from the same direction regardless of where the pitch is coming from; aile, ele or +/- collective. That does appear to weaken my argument. As long as it's not really sloppy it's probably fine. But dude, I've been flybarless since 2006. I've setup at least a dozen of my own fbl ships as well as others for other people. Aside from the occasional brain fart, I actually do know what I'm talking about. You definitely can get phasing issues from a sloppy swash drver.
__________________
vbar T700E v2 DFC head, Pyro 700-45L, Jive 120HV, BLS451/BLS251, Edge 693/115
vbar CF Protos Scorp 3026-880kv, Ice lite 75, 9650/BLS251, SAB 430/KBDD 82
terrabit is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 11:58 PM   #46
Thunder Fighter
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

Yep, I agree sloppy ones can cause phasing issues and we all have brain farts occasionally.

//Dennis.
__________________
SAB Goblin 500 x 2 : SAB Goblin 700 : SAB Goblin 770C : Jeti DS-16
Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600 : CYE Stingray

Team RCBits | SAB & KBDD Field Rep | www.rcbits.com.au
Thunder Fighter is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 02:57 AM   #47
raulglider
Registered Users
 
Posts: 8
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Transilvania, Romania
Default microRondo on Protos500

microRondo from www.pro-rc.de , still testing...
by mistake flown with 200% sensitivity and crash now repairing.just blades and long ball from blade holders damaged !!!
news coming soon...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FBL02.jpg
Views:	275
Size:	55.5 KB
ID:	249792   Click image for larger version

Name:	FBL01.jpg
Views:	319
Size:	40.1 KB
ID:	249793  
raulglider is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2011, 03:18 AM   #48
whisperdancer
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,865
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Porto, Portugal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrabit View Post
Actually ... you're right. The load would come from the same direction regardless of where the pitch is coming from; aile, ele or +/- collective. That does appear to weaken my argument. As long as it's not really sloppy it's probably fine. But dude, I've been flybarless since 2006. I've setup at least a dozen of my own fbl ships as well as others for other people. Aside from the occasional brain fart, I actually do know what I'm talking about. You definitely can get phasing issues from a sloppy swash drver.
Yep. A sloppy driver one will cause movement on the horizontal plane of the swash, leading to phasing. For the guidance, what only matters is (besides no sloop) the vertical movement and constant alignment/distance between the arm and swash balls.
At least in the low FBL head, the arms seem to be tight.
Only complaint about it was that the threads came with some bead dust from the bead blast. I had a hard time to clean it, as it could damage the threads.
But the i2i swash I bought was in the same sittuation...
__________________
MSH Prtos CF FBL Stretch - Scorpion 880KV, YGE 60A, 3x s9650, BLS251, VBar 5.1
E-flite HABU 32
Ikarus EXTRemA 330S
Multiplex Parkmaster 3D
whisperdancer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2011, 11:57 PM   #49
byHISgrace
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Default

What settings are you using in your Beastx/Protos combo?

Can anyone else give me their settings to help me get started with my first FBL?

Thanks. Matt

Quote:
Originally Posted by vs0587 View Post
MSH Protos Carbon:
- SAB Blades
- Beastx Microbeast v3
- 3x Futaba S9650
- 1x Futaba S9254
- YGE 60A ESC
- Scorpion 880kV

byHISgrace is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 01:51 AM   #50
vs0587
Registered Users
 
Posts: 83
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Saronno, Italy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by byHISgrace View Post
What settings are you using in your Beastx/Protos combo?

Can anyone else give me their settings to help me get started with my first FBL?

Thanks. Matt
I've done all basic setup correctly, and fly in transmitter mode! ail and ele with 10% of expo and 105% endpoint, rudder 20% expo and 100% endpoint.. Dials 1 and 2 in middle position (never changed); 3rd dial at 11 o'clock with headlock gain red..

I have best performance with very rigid "outdoor TESA tape"..
Not sponge standard tape..

Plus, i balanced tail rotor and locked tail boom brace..
vs0587 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 01:13 AM   #51
byHISgrace
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Default

How do you measure the blade pitch on the FBL Protos?

Do you just rough guess the pitch gauge against the horizon?

Are there any more Beastx setup tips or favorite mounting spots?

Thanks. Matt
byHISgrace is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 02:32 AM   #52
mahbouni
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Default

Easy way: http://www.readyheli.com/40001RC-RC-...e_p_37972.html

Cheaper and more accurate way: http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=259188
__________________
Logo 700 - JR Forza 700 - Logo 600 - Logo 550SX - Logo 480 - LA Sniper2 - Protos - Mini Protos
mahbouni is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2011, 03:57 PM   #53
mic-21
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Van_BC
Default

hi all
which FBL upgrate kit I need to get ,,the First ( no Arms ) or the upgrade just came out ...any advance of one over other .
thanks
mic-21 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2011, 08:52 AM   #54
Thunder Fighter
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

Only issue with tho older design is the delrin part that hold the rods is expensive due to being machined and can break in a crash, otherwise probably not much in it. I will wait till my current one breaks and then maybe go for the low FBL head and the arms.

//Dennis.
__________________
SAB Goblin 500 x 2 : SAB Goblin 700 : SAB Goblin 770C : Jeti DS-16
Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600 : CYE Stingray

Team RCBits | SAB & KBDD Field Rep | www.rcbits.com.au
Thunder Fighter is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 03:06 AM   #55
mic-21
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Van_BC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Fighter View Post
Only issue with tho older design is the delrin part that hold the rods is expensive due to being machined and can break in a crash, otherwise probably not much in it. I will wait till my current one breaks and then maybe go for the low FBL head and the arms.

//Dennis.
some said , the Low FBL Head is for Stretch version only
mic-21 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 09:00 AM   #56
Thunder Fighter
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic-21 View Post
some said , the Low FBL Head is for Stretch version only
Yes, I have a stretch, and I think it is the manufacturer that says not to use it on a standard version, so I would normally follow that advice.

//Dennis.
__________________
SAB Goblin 500 x 2 : SAB Goblin 700 : SAB Goblin 770C : Jeti DS-16
Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600 : CYE Stingray

Team RCBits | SAB & KBDD Field Rep | www.rcbits.com.au
Thunder Fighter is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 10:23 PM   #57
mic-21
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Van_BC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Fighter View Post
Yes, I have a stretch, and I think it is the manufacturer that says not to use it on a standard version, so I would normally follow that advice.

//Dennis.
my are non-stretch ..so i have to keep the the standard Head .it look like Readyheli have the FBL kit that work with the normal head and still use the Arms .

http://www.readyheli.com/MSH51115-Fl...s_p_35626.html
mic-21 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 11:13 PM   #58
tacomaster
Registered Users
 
Posts: 951
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Near Knoxville, TN
Default

Beast x v3
align ds510 16mm ball spacing.
msh head

pot 1 3 ish click from max no pitching FFF or bobbles EVER. i did a forward flip wall at full speed and had no bobble.

running stock beast gain setting on tail as in the red color, 43% on dx8 with futaba s9251 with precomp on low, no kicking and no tail wag what so ever.

i used a digital pitch gauge and go swash perfect. everything is with in .2 degrees on throws.

Im getting 12 collective with 11.1 ish cyclic all blue lights with no binding what so ever.


FLYS AMAZING!
tacomaster is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 02:52 PM   #59
banditpowdercoat
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,308
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 100 Mile House BC Canada
Default

BeastX and the original FBL conversion are on it's way to my house as I type this. SHould be rockin this weekend. Good riddance to FB's!!!!
__________________
Dan Pesonen
FBL, Don't think about it, DO IT.
mCX2, nCPX, mCP X, Blade 400, MSH PRTOS, T-700N
"Tri-Flow"
I put that S*** on everything!"
banditpowdercoat is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 06:36 AM   #60
boltor
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Default

for any SK-720 user, I have just started a thread to discuss SK-720 tuning, setups, etc:

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=346138

(similar to the 6HV / SK-720 thread started by Castel).
__________________
Compass 6HV FBL | Stock Motor | CC 80HV Ice2 ESC, gov via SK720 | SK-720 FBL & PowerBus | R6203SB Rx, sbus
MSH Protos 500 | Scorpion 3026-880 | CC 75A Ice Lite ESC, gov via SK720 | SK-720
Other: Spektrum DX9 | iCharger 208B
boltor is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > MSH Protos


MSH Protos MSH Protos Helicopter Support Forum

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com