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Old 02-08-2010, 11:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxum View Post
and here is where i stand.

on my first flight with the 3g, i brought it up into a hover about 5 feet maybe, in normal mode.. just making sure everything was looking good and doing what it was supposed to.. less than a minute in the tail let go and starts to spin...no huge deal, i cut the motor and landed...i have no clue why it did that, and frankly dont want to use my 700 to try to replicate it. im not going to fly it as is, so now the 3g is holding my 700 hostage in the garage until align answers ANY of our questions, or i rip if off the thing and go back to what i (and everyone else) knows works brilliantly.
Hey gixxum
Your first flight sounds like the 3G tail gyro is programmed backwards. Did you try to reverse the gyro?
Same thing happened to me with my 450.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:02 AM   #42
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It couldn't have been programmed backwards, he said the first minute was ok and only after 1 minute did the tail let go..
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:29 AM   #43
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I see there is some kind of confusion about the voltages impi62 has posted.

Here is a try to explain what's going on here.

The cable and connectors are acting as a resistor in the power chain and drop the voltage over that resistor.

Ohm law says: V = I * R ( Voltage = Current * Resistance).

Therefore as long as you have low current there is not much voltage drop. See the remaining 5.9V (impi62) and 6.6 panzlflyer have measured.
If you put some load on then the voltage drop increases (I * R) thats when you might see the 4.1V or even lower.

That's one thing of the story. The other one is the Electric Power P - or in this case Power loss - which can be calculated as:

P = I * I * R (e.g. I square * Resistance)

This power loss will be transformed into heat: That's when we see melted cables and burned connectors.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:41 AM   #44
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okay here is my fix.
I got a 3 inch servo extension, pulled out red and brown wires from the male plug.
Put those 2 wires into the 3g connector for elevator and plug that into the reciever.
The remaining signal wire in the plug goes to the 3g elevator output buss.
The female end of the extension goes to the servo.
Signal still comes from the 3g but power comes from reciever.
repeat fro pitch servo.
Left aileron servo as is.
Voltage is the same on all connectors so shouldnt have one slow servo
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:10 AM   #45
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Well that's a verry pragmatic aproach that requires no soldering at all.
Well thought
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:57 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinosoo View Post
Hey gixxum
Your first flight sounds like the 3G tail gyro is programmed backwards. Did you try to reverse the gyro?
Same thing happened to me with my 450.
im not gonna lie...ive done that with my 450 too back in the day.. but yes everything was going smooth and then all of the sudden it starts to piro ..not crazy fast or anything..but it wasnt letting me stop it ...it could have been 10000x worse, dont get me wrong...but im not going to just brush it off and throw the thing back up in the air, when align seems to have crawled under a rock and apparently arent answering questions,


i want to have faith in align....i love the helis, but they might have jumped in with both feet a bit too quick with this flybarless thing. i think ive only had 2 questions regarding the vbar when i set it up. but when i asked those 2 questions, i was responded to immediately and accurately by mikado...not so much with align..

oh well, guess ill just grab some popcorn and wait for the next episode of the 3g saga
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:15 AM   #47
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Actually the silence from Align is deafening !

They really need to step up and talk.
Also i'm sure most 3G users (even in this forum) are not aware of this issue, maybe the thread title is not telling them enough to make them read it. One would think with an issue like this with the 3G this thread would have 100's of post already. I worry for the ppl out there flying the 3G on helis bigger than the 450 not knowing whats going on.

And BTW, i'm not a Align hater (which some may think cus i have a Logo), i was actually hoping the 3G would be really great and give the way overpriced v-bar some competition.

gixxum, I feel your pain, especially coming from a V-bar.
BUT if i was you & already have the 3G i would just the mod the leads and fly it. Did you sell your v-bar because of the 3G ?

Peace
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:19 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuNut View Post
Actually the silence from Align is deafening !

They really need to step up and talk.
Also i'm sure most 3G users (even in this forum) are not aware of this issue, maybe the thread title is not telling them enough to make them read it. One would think with an issue like this with the 3G this thread would have 100's of post already. I worry for the ppl out there flying the 3G on helis bigger than the 450 not knowing whats going on.

And BTW, i'm not a Align hater (which some may think cus i have a Logo), i was actually hoping the 3G would be really great and give the way overpriced v-bar some competition.

gixxum, I feel your pain, especially coming from a V-bar.
BUT if i was you & already have the 3G i would just the mod the leads and fly it. Did you sell your v-bar because of the 3G ?

Peace
i didnt sell the vbar for this, no. i went through some issues with the vbar, but none were hardware/software issues with the unit or anything that was mikado. it was getting all the details right, like the ball link spacing on the horns and everything else related to putting mikado stuff on a trex. there are a lot of variables and small details that will make you or break you....but i was fully aware that would be the case. it would be like putting the 3g on a mikado...they arent made for it..but in the end, i never once questioned the electronics. the vbar is a rock solid system. at first i hated that you needed a laptop to set it up...now i think its the best idea ever. this programming via one button kinda leaves a lot to be desired.. i realize align will come out with the link and software blah blah blah..but as is right now, i wouldnt plug my computer into anything related to this 3g system for fear of my whole house burning down.

when i saw there was finally something made specifically for the trex, i was stoked. i pre ordered it and had high hopes when i opened that box because it looked like quality parts.. coming from the vbar, the 3g setup was odd to me, just because there were a lot of calculations that i didnt have to make to set it up (cyclic ring etc) and just seemed like it was too easy. in my mind, (and this is just me, dont flame me) that told me that maybe this system is just a basic version of a fbl setup thats affordable and comes with everything so the average flyer doesnt have to have half his life invested into it. i think thats great. i just assumed that since obviously the vbar is the competition, it would be a lot more similar in features and performance to it. as of right now, you really think mikado is worried? hah..im no mikado fanboy, the only think mikado i have ever owned is the vbar so by all means, i was really pulling for align on this one...

but to add insult to injury, what happens 2 weeks after the 3g release? mikado says "oh yea, btw, we have this new plug n play vbar thats also a spektrum receiver and a governor. all in one little unit". the 3g is a really good package for the price, but as of now (and i hope this changes) you pay around $150 more for the mikado setup (for the vbar and head conversion,,but its actually about the same price if you consider that the vbar is the receiver also.) which is great. but ask yourself how much you save as soon as your blades hit the ground cause the 3g couldnt handle your 8v set up...i guess im saying that when it comes to helis where blades alone are $100+ and parts go up from there, im going to spend the $150 as insurance because the vbar has proven to be the best fbl setup around right now. and dont get me wrong, i spent the $450 on the 3g which is why i am giving you guys my honest opinion. it sucks to see how much people are having to spend to fix their helis because of this 3g system and mysterious issues that have no answers because the manufacturer is hiding


NOTE: had align or any rep of align actually replied to any of us regarding ANY of these issues, id still hold out on my opinion. but they are proving to be useless.. mikado on the other hand, CUSTOMER SERVICE GODS. even if you had to call readyheli (retailer), everyone there could help you and solve your issue. imagine that,

to be align right now, sucks. i wouldnt answer the phone either

as we speak im putting a flybar back on my 700 so i can go fly it..ill keep the 3g system and *cough* hope align steps up and says something or maybe software update...anything to show they are still alive..at which point i may give it another go.


edit: and about the mod for the 3g..i just really dont want to use my 700 as a beta test. all that does for me is makes me fly scared. when you have a whole forum of people having issues with the same thing, and the manufacturer wont help,...there is no other solution but to work together to find a fix, which is what this is. but what if it doesnt fix it? then i have a $2000 lawn dart. so ill just put on a flybar until the next chapter of this drama unfolds
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:04 PM   #49
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Most of the Asia is shutdown for Chinese New Year, probably Align as well. That's probably why you aren't getting much response. The information here has been very valuable so far. No need to turn this into another Align bashing thread.
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:13 PM   #50
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Quote:
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Most of the Asia is shutdown for Chinese New Year, probably Align as well. That's probably why you aren't getting much response. The information here has been very valuable so far. No need to turn this into another Align bashing thread.


yet the units keep shipping to out retailers... whos sending them?

i realize their new year can last up to 2 weeks, but someone is there doing something. to not even get an auto reply is just crappy i think. granted im really not waiting personally for anything.. im back to flybar as quick as i was flybarless. that way if for some stroke of luck they want this unit returned, i wont lose any flying time. in the likely event they dont reply, ill just keep an eye on the forums and if there is a viable solution to get this unit to be RELIABLE (key word to me), i will try it. i just dont feel comfortable taking stabs in the dark at it with my helicopter on the line if the outcome doesnt turn out right.

and again, id really love this to work.. id have sold it to the biggest sucker, i mean highest bidder, if i didnt have some sort of faith in align.
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:24 PM   #51
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gixxum Ok, i now see where you coming from (post 48) thx for the info.

steph280, i forgot about the holidays in China, BUT i dont think anyone is Align bashing, more like concerns, worries and some very understandable frustration.

But i can tell you

1: I really like Align & love how they have dominated the heli scene in such a short time.

2: If i had brought one of these 3G units it would be my right to bash Align if i wanted to and i probly would because i would be so pissed.

3: This design flaw is obviously a biggie, a massive biggie as far a flaws go and the unit obviously needs a redesign.

4: I do think they will fix it & 3Gv2 will be much better.

Peace

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Old 02-09-2010, 12:35 PM   #52
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Quote:
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Most of the Asia is shutdown for Chinese New Year, probably Align as well. That's probably why you aren't getting much response. The information here has been very valuable so far. No need to turn this into another Align bashing thread.


When a video was posted showing occillation in the 3G system, Alan Szabo responded within one hour stating that he was just adjusting gains. When folks start having genuine issues with the unit there is complete silence from Align and Alan Szabo.

Instead people start saying " no need to bash Align " after the customer has plopped down $400 + crashed heli's. It is perfectly understandable for people to be irrate over being taken for several hundred dollars.

I would argue that they should have been aware of the fact that they were being used as paying beta testers, but with all the hype propogated by Align fan boys, it may have been difficult to make a prudent decision regarding purchasing an untried system.

I for one would encourage Alan Szabo to chime in and explain what people are doing wrong with there setups. Obviously the 3G flew perfect in his videos so it must be a setup issue.....right ?

The crickets however are chirping loudly.

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Old 02-09-2010, 12:48 PM   #53
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oh and about the bashing...i am totally not bashing

i swore to never bother with another 450 after my old v2...but i bought a sport and i gotta say... I LOVE the combos align is doing. my sport will sit there and tic toc on its side until my brain cant keep up anymore...right out of the box.

the other day i flew my buddies 700 after my 3g experience, and i put a beating on his bird..when i landed and was walking back with it, i noticed he was running the same gyro (750) as i was on the sport....now had i know that before i flew, i wouldnt have...but man that gyro holds anything. i was really impressed.

the kits and the products they are selling now, compared to a year or two ago are a great way to get into helis or step up from a coax because now id actually have piece of mind saying "its not just a crappy ARF kit where you keep some stuff and put good electronics in it.... whats in the box is all you need..no hop ups or MUST HAVE parts to make it fly well..with this economy, thats HUGE"

had i not bought that sport, i simply would have not bought the 3g system. but the new kits and stuff really boosted my confidence so i shelled out the $450 with no problem for that 3g..

thinking about it now, if i can find a cheap head, i might just throw the 3g on the 450 until the issues are worked out for the bigger birds... who knows..
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:55 PM   #54
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In the process of waitng for 3-g units for a new 600& 700. I will be running JR HV's, an a SGP ReactorX. Am I Correct that the Reactor will act as the servo bus fix that people are explaining. The 3-g cables will just be patch cables and the 8v will only be seen coming out of the Reactor feeding my cyclic servos. Have a 3-G already installed in my 500. I have not test flown it yet due to weather conditions. But am assuming I shopuld be alright running it on 6V?
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:56 PM   #55
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Well Ive got 2 downed 700Ns right now due to 3Gs.

Mine are not even HV setups and I think I'm getting brownouts to the 3Gs.
Has to be it's the only thing that could casue them to lockout and stop working but still having control through my RXs.

Im stumped and really having severe buyers remorse on the 800 bucks I dropped here.

neither one is flyable at this point on my 2 birds. but the funny thing is the second one I bought from a local person that was having 0 issues with it on an HV setup with no mods.

I run it lower at 6.6V 10C and I get a 3G lockout 2 mins into hovering? whats going on here?
Im confused and ready to give up completely this really put a severe damper on my RC Heli will and that 800 bucks wasted could have really been used to more enjoyment elsewhere.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:00 PM   #56
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Ceevee: take a number and your case will be handled by the next available representative.

i just took the 3g off because, like you, the 3g was holding my 700 hostage.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:02 PM   #57
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CeeVeeSin, What servos do you run vs the person before you that you got it from.

Just take the sample of Align/JR/Savox vs Futaba, futaba have a built in signal filter, meaning you cannot overdrive the servos like crazy, on the JR it just answer Sir Yes Sir and start moving the motor.

If you overdrive those type of servos from the control loop, you can get some really silly peaks.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:03 PM   #58
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I have always been totally against any electronics with the "ALIGN" warning badge. Had to many failures. It seems as if they came a long way and that there servos have been holding up well, the gyros where performing good and overall failure stories seemed to be down. I got a deal I couldn't resist on the 500 system. I did fall in love with FBL after flying V-bar 600 and 700's. I like to keep all my helis simillar all GY 520's etc, so that is why I went with two more 3-G's. Just hope the SGP will bypass this wire gauge issue for me.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:07 PM   #59
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Quote:
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CeeVeeSin, What servos do you run vs the person before you that you got it from.

Just take the sample of Align/JR/Savox vs Futaba, futaba have a built in signal filter, meaning you cannot overdrive the servos like crazy, on the JR it just answer Sir Yes Sir and start moving the motor.

If you overdrive those type of servos from the control loop, you can get some really silly peaks.
Mel.
Im running Hyperion DS20FMDs which digital metal geared servos and should be plenty fast for FBL.
Running them at 6.6V LiFEPo 10C directly into a AR7000.

He was running JR 8717s on an AR7100R at 8V

So is the other local 3G system thats working well.. same setup.

Both those guys fly extremely hard and have not had the issues I have had.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:09 PM   #60
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Just hope the SGP will bypass this wire gauge issue for me.
im sure most of use hope it works for you too...we have to live vicariously through the 7 people this system worked for.
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