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450 Class Electric Helicopters 450 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 06-07-2014, 12:44 AM   #1
jazsop
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Default trex 450 plus dfc lost power three times today

My trex 450 plus dfc lost power three times today. The first time it did it, it did it twice for about 1.5 seconds both times. I landed and checked the sat receiver and it was blinking. Changed batteries and thought i would go up and investigete. Hovered for about 20 seconds no problem. Made a shallow turn to the right with the sat receiver facing me and the motor cuts off again. This time the motor doesn't come back on line and the heli autos down from about 10 feet. Bounces and lands fine (think goodness) and then the motor starts back up. I shut it down and go look at the sat receiver and this time its Not blinking. Still 80% battery remaining on that pack. Totally confused. Heli has about 150 flts on it.
I am running everything stock. Trex 450 plus dfc, align 35 amp esc, align 450mx motor, align ds415 cyclic servos, align ds425 tail servo and an align 3GX MRS receiver, FBL controller. Lipo packs are all 11.1 volt 2200mah 30c packs.
Also, the sat receiver was not bent or touching the carbon fiber side frames. It is in the exact same place and orientation as it been in the first 140 flights with no problems. I had just silicon sprayed the tail belt before i went out this morning. Pulled on the battery wires for the esc and they seem secure to me.
Got home and plugged the heli in and disconnected the motor wires. Gave it 3/4 throttle (NO MOTOR RUNING) and put a load on the servos to see if i could get it to over load. Nothing. Worked fine. Plugged the motor back in and held it this time. powered up to about 3/4 throttle and nothing. Everything worked fine. My first 140 flights everything worked perfect, know i am scared to fly it. My last crash was six flights ago when after flying, came into a hover to land and it just rolled over to the left from about 3 ft in the air. Still had 28% battery left and NO blinking sat receiver. I was hoping that was just static since it had been about 12 flts since i had last siliconed the tail belt. Now i'm not so sure.

Any help would be great. thx

Last edited by jazsop; 06-07-2014 at 05:18 PM..
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:21 AM   #2
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Hi.
Which TX are you using?
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:16 AM   #3
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Jr 9303
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:33 AM   #4
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Are you using an external bec?

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Old 06-07-2014, 04:59 PM   #5
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No, the Heli is stock
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:10 AM   #6
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A inspection on the ESC and motor conectors may show a cold solder.
Anything that is not shiny should be re-melt to a nice temp and let it cool down with no movement on any part.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi_tuga View Post
A inspection on the ESC and motor conectors may show a cold solder.
Anything that is not shiny should be re-melt to a nice temp and let it cool down with no movement on any part.

+1
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:17 AM   #8
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Had the same thing happen to my Trex 450 plus. I replaced the Align ESC with a Castle Talon 30 and it still happened (much better ESC by the way). Finally replaced the stock radio/gyro with a Ikon FBL system and no more cutoffs (love the Ikon too). Mine was the radio/gyro try wiggling the ESC plug where it plugs into the radio with the blades removed or better the main drive gear removed start the motor spinning slowly and see if it stops or skips I think mine had a intermittent short and would lose contact momentarily. By the time I would walk over to it everything would be fine sometimes it wouldn't even make it to the ground before it would catch and get power again. Never had anything reinitialize when it would happen. Bottom line is I think you have a bad radio/gyro. Sorry to be the barer of bad news.
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Old 06-08-2014, 03:36 PM   #9
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Thx Larryu. I will try that here in a bit. Have you read any where else here on the forums of bad Align 3GX MRS FBL unit. Do you think that could have been the cause of my roller over to the left from 2 ft in the air? I am running align ds415mg servos.


So yours was a bad fbl connection you think inside the fbl.
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:58 PM   #10
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No I looked long and hard and couldnít find any posts on it but I didnít post anything at the time either. Because this is a beginnerís helicopter the people buying it may not know enough to say hay Iím having a problem or itís very isolated and you and I are two of the unlucky ones that got a defective unit. I am very much the beginner I have just started nose in hovering following RCHelicopterfun.com learning progression. I think the ESC was losing signal from the radio due to a short (not crossed wires but an open circuit) and shutting down the motor as a failsafe but it was still receiving power to the radio so it didnít reset. It did it with both the Align ESC and the Castle Talon 35 but because I am using soft start on the Talon it was more pronounced than with the stock ESC. The roll over I would guess was possibly from loss of radio signal those antennas on the 3GX-MR are pretty short you canít get them away from the carbon fiber body. I was running the DS415ís but upgraded to the DS430ís and a Pro metal head. I only have a few flights on them but they do seem to be more stable, there is much less play in them. It doesnít hunt for altitude like it was that I think was from the play in the whole system allowing the pitch to change when the forces on the blade changed. But then the play is what makes the Plus a little more forgiving for beginners just learning to hover.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:25 PM   #11
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Did everything you said and can't replicate what it was doing. Pulled on the wires all over the place and nothing. Worked as it should. I even ran it real slow and walked outside around the house and to my amazement couldn't get it to loose signal. I figured it would. It's acting perfectly normal, but I know it didn't heal itself. Lol. Even tugged on the servos to load them up to see if I could over power it and make it drop off and it wouldn't. I am totally stumped. I really enjoy flying but I can't always be worried about it falling out of the sky of no apparent reason. That's my job, not its. I don't know what else to try.

Also, I am using a spektrum sat antenna and its not touching any carbon so the other antenna on the controller don't come into play.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:07 AM   #12
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Default Re: trex 450 plus dfc lost power three times today

I was to, I thought my gyro went out so I replaced it with the Ikon and it solved the loss of power problem. Turns out it wasn't a bad gyro the bearings in the plastic tail had a lot of play and was making the tail unstable. Unfortunately the only real way to know is to change out the 3gx-mr to find out if it fixes the problem. Which is why I upgraded to the Ikon if I was going to spend the money I might as well get something better. Not a cheep trouble shooting step. Or I guess you could try and see if Align will do a warranty repair if its not that old but I imagine that would take some time to do and I wouldn't know where to start. Larry

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Old 06-09-2014, 12:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: trex 450 plus dfc lost power three times today

35A esc is too small for your setup, given the fact that only the 450MX motor can draw around 46A depending on the pinion size and throttle curve. So there's not much current for the electronics in there, and you have plenty. Basically at certain points in mid flight, randomly, the esc doesn't manage to send the current your motor is requiring and either enters in safe mode if it has one or just stops sending current to the motor. Just my 2 cents, I'm not saying in can't be something else but a 35A esc is just not enough to run that heli.
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:29 PM   #14
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I've been running a 35 amp align esc for hundreds of flights with no issues. I do have an external bec though.

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Old 06-09-2014, 03:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashNburn420 View Post
I've been running a 35 amp align esc for hundreds of flights with no issues. I do have an external bec though.

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Also on 3s?
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:50 PM   #16
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Castle Creations Talon 35 is sold as a 450 sized ESC

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Old 06-09-2014, 04:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexatu View Post
35A esc is too small for your setup, given the fact that only the 450MX motor can draw around 46A depending on the pinion size and throttle curve. So there's not much current for the electronics in there, and you have plenty. Basically at certain points in mid flight, randomly, the esc doesn't manage to send the current your motor is requiring and either enters in safe mode if it has one or just stops sending current to the motor. Just my 2 cents, I'm not saying in can't be something else but a 35A esc is just not enough to run that heli.
yes, get a YEP 45A V1 ESC (NOT V2!) or HobbyWing 50A V3.
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Old 06-09-2014, 04:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: trex 450 plus dfc lost power three times today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi_tuga View Post
Also on 3s?
Yes on 3s

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Old 06-13-2014, 02:34 PM   #19
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Problem solved. After the last crash, one one of the things I replaced, slash, upgraded, was a pair of dominator tail rotor blades. I didn't balance them before I mounted them. After trying everything everybody suggested, and taking the main blades off, I noticed a buzz vibration. I didn't seem like much, but was way more than expected. The Heli was vibrating at such a hi frequency that I could rotate the tail boom even though it was tight in its mounts. This vibration was making all the servos hot because the vibs were transferred to the airframe as well. Since I am running a spektrum sat receiver that drops out at 3.5volts I was working the digital servos hard enough due to vibrations that it fell below 3.5 volts. That would explain the flashing sat receiver. Which only occurs during a power disprution, not a signal disruption per the spektrum website. On the next flight with the esc hot from the previous flight I must have over temped the esc causing it shut down. Hence the down Heli with no flashing receiver.

After removing the main blades and feeling the vibration and then removing the head and it was still there, I removed the tail blades and it went away. After balancing the tail blades off the Heli and fine tuning them on the Heli ( adding and removing tape) the vibration is gone and no more hot servos. This is all I can think off. Also, I grounded the tail gearbox with the tailboom and the tailboom with the motor mount. I have zero resistance between the tail gearbox and the motor mount. I have flown it 11 times without a hiccup with the same batteries. Balancing your tail blades on something as small as 450 is very important. I didn't know they could cause that much vibration and work your servos overtime. They will NOT balance themselves. I could not believe how much vibration there was at the cyclic links. You could not see this vibration when it was flying but you could sure feel it when it was up to speed. The fact that i could just rotate the boom at speed and then shut it down and it was solid was an indicator that the tail blades were way out of wack. I hope this helps anybody who is reading this that vibration can cause a lot of other mysterys that we may be attributing to our electronics. After balancing and grounding I have not had any other issues. Mind you this Heli had over 150 flts without it being statically grounded. Just silicone sprayed. But everything changed after adding those tail blades. Also, I was using some mid time batteries that may not have been up to the task of supplying that last little bit to keep it over 3.5 volts with the vibs.

Matt
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Also, I was using some mid time batteries that may not have been up to the task of supplying that last little bit to keep it over 3.5 volts with the vibs.
Some of the stuff I read doesn't make much sense. Your BEC is typically set at least 5v. I do not see how it i would drop to 3.5v and your sats be the issue. I have had Align ESC issues before and won't use them anymore. I also tried to use a 3GX when I had my 9303 and had nothing but issues. I hope it works for you and interested in hearing a flight report.

Have you flown it since?
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