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Kontronik Drives Jazz and Jive ESC's and other Kontronik equipment support


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Old 12-13-2010, 11:26 AM   #1
Helioop
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Default Kontronik Jive ESC Mode & Governor Setup

Everyone who uses Kontronik ESCs raves about their quality and reliability, and especially about their superior governor function. Iím now among the converted, but it wasnít easy. The Manual is barely helpful and customer service can range from great to non-existent; Iíve experienced both extremes. Long hard searches on the web didnít unearth much help either. Maybe help is out there, but I didnít find it. So I thought Iíd share some of my hard-found setup experience for others left scratching their heads over setting up these wonderful ESCs.

The manual does a decent job of describing how to program heli mode into the ESC, but for clarity, hereís a better English translation:

Step 1 - Set Things Up for Programming
Set the Normal Throttle Curve to: 0% / optional% / 100%
Connect your ESC to your RX.
Turn on your radio and set the throttle to zero
Power up your Rx if itís on a dedicated Rx pack.

Step 2 - Reset the Programming in the ESC (Mode 1)
Make sure the little black jumper/tab is in the ESC (it doesnít matter on which pins) then power up the ESC with your flight pack.
Pull out the little black tab after you hear the ascending tones from the ESC.
Mode Selection: At the first beep, raise the throttle to full throttle and listen for the descending tones.
Listen for the confirmation beep(s) counting off which mode has just been programmed (one in this case).
Unplug the battery and replace the little black jumper.

Programming the ESC for Helicopter Use (Mode 4)
Repeat Step 2, except at ďMode SelectionĒ wait for four beeps before selecting full throttle.

Programming LiPo Mode (Mode 9)
Repeat Step 2, except at ďMode SelectionĒ wait for nine beeps before selecting full throttle.

Setting Up Governor RPM
The manual tells you nothing about how to set up Governor RPM, but it is easy. Set up straight horizontal lines for your Idle Up 1 and Idle Up 2 curves (example: Idle Up 1 to: 60% / 60% / 60% and Idle Up 2 to: 80% / 80% / 80%). Move these curves (flat lines) up and down at the field to set the desired RPM levels. Switching between flight modes will change your head speed to these preset governed speeds. Do not use V curves (i.e. 100% / 80% / 100%). This will mess the governor up.

If you set your Normal Throttle Curve to be any ascending line (example: 0% / 60% / 100%), your head speed will not be governed in Normal mode. You can also set your Normal Throttle Curve to something like: 0% / 60% / 60% if you want the lower half of your Throttle Curve to act ungoverned, and everything above mid-stick to be governed to whatever rpm level the flat part of the curve produces.

Tricks and Traps
When programming, the three modes mentioned above (1,4,9) the programming effects are cumulative. Mode 1 resets everything, Mode 2 programs in Heli settings, Mode 3 keeps the Heli settings and adds LiPo settings.
Align 700e Ė If you use the Jive 80+ HV, make sure to program Mode 10 in addition to the above three Modes (1,4,9,10). This prevents the ESC from shutting down on power spikes. The 80+ HV can handle the demands of the 700e just fine, especially with a heat sink added. But if you donít program Mode 10 in, you will be practicing surprise auto rotations.
Mode 11 is the same as Mode 4 except it does a better job of keeping your head speed consistent if switching between battery packs of significantly different power capabilities.
If you accidently or otherwise reprogram Mode 1 at any point, youíve reset everything else, so you have to reprogram Modes 4 and 9 again.
Most people say there is no need to access more detailed programming features of the Jive by using ProgCards I and/or II, or the ProgDisk. Personally I prefer some of the changes these cards make possible. I think itís a good idea to increase the LiPo shut-down level from 2.7v per cell to 3.0v, and I prefer that it would slow down rather than shut completely off. I also want 6v to my servos. Unfortunately, that means buying both ProgCards or the ProgDisk. Itís not necessary, but itís better.
If you have ProgCard I or ProgDisk, and have programmed your ESC using your Tx (1,4, 9), donít mess with the ďStick PositionsĒ (Set Motor Off Position, Set Full Gas, etc.). The stick positions are programmed during the normal course of programming (i.e. changing from zero throttle to full throttle to select each mode). Reprogramming Stick Positions using the ProgCard/Disk messes with the throttle channelís effective endpoints and can make the ESC nonresponsive.
If you find you can no longer arm the ESC, do a Mode 1 reset. When you pull out the little black jumper, you will hear the descending tones and can go from there.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:12 PM   #2
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Be aware that if you have verion 9 of the firmware and you program mode 9 after mode 4 or 11, then your LVC will be set to cut-off power and NOT lower power when lipo reaches LVC. You will need one of the prog cards to set it back to low power option. Or just don't set Lipo mode 9 at all.
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:26 AM   #3
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If I understand correctly, by not setting up LiPo Mode 9, the ESC is in NiCd/NiMH mode by default and will still cut off, but at 0.8v per cell which is effectively no cut-off at all because your battery would be so discharged before the voltage got that low that it wouldn't even support a hover ... which feels like a low-power "slow down," but can ruin the pack.

This is all kind of moot as only a very inexperienced pilot would not notice the extreme lack of power before even the LiPo low voltage cutoff of 2.7 volts was reached, even if the flight was started with a discharged pack.

The safest option is to spend the extra $30 for ProgCard I and program a "slow down" rather than a "shut down" at 3.0 volts/cell instead of the defaust 2.7. It's not essential, but it's cheap insurance.
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Old 07-23-2011, 10:59 AM   #4
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thank god for this post, you would think an expensive esc like the Kontronik would come with a better manual. Allthough I have no hair left, at least I am ready to fly!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:09 AM   #5
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Default Mode 10 for Trex700E?

I'm glad to know that I need mode 10 to handle voltage spikes on my 700E. The manual describes this as KSA-Mode to allow Hacker turbine motors to operate more efficiently. Any more info on mode 10 for align heli motors? Would this mode be necessary in a 600pro? Thanks for this informative post. I found the manual to be somewhat brief.
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:48 PM   #6
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I've not come across any other info on this mode 10 requirement on Align motors. But having my brand new 700e auger in once and auto in twice in the first weeks before I used mode 10, then go for a year now without failure since using mode 10, I'm convinced.

I can't comment on a 600pro, but I use a Jive 80+ LV on my 500esp and programmed mode 10 into it before its maiden flight. I don't know if it is necessary on the 500, but I've not had a problem yet in over a year.

You can test for the need for mode 10 though. Just program modes 1, 4 & 9 then do some full throttle pitch pumps at an altitude you feel confident autoing in from. If the ESC is going to shut down due to power spikes, this will do it.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:17 AM   #7
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Think I understand this a bit better thanks, however just for clarification if I set it for heli mode ie mode 4 after setting mode 1, do I replace the black jumper after disconnecting the battery having set mode 4 ??...
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Old 09-11-2011, 09:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer_andydrummer View Post
Think I understand this a bit better thanks, however just for clarification if I set it for heli mode ie mode 4 after setting mode 1, do I replace the black jumper after disconnecting the battery having set mode 4 ??...
If you want to you can, just place it at the corner of the Jive.
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Old 09-14-2011, 02:39 AM   #9
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hi, what will u hear when arming the jive esc?
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:53 AM   #10
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Depends...

Always: Three ascending tones.

Followed by a beep tone per recognized LiPo cell (S)....
- normal JIVE: If mode 9 ("LiPo mode") is set up.
- HeliJIVE: Always, because LiPo mode is fix active.

Followed by a ring tone...
- normal JIVE: If KSA mode (mode 10) is set up.
- HeliJIVE: If mode 8 is set up or KSA mode (mode 9 here). (Mode 8 contains KSA.)

Always check the blink code of the LED, after power-up, post run.

-----
Jumper: If the jumper was in during power-up and you pull him out (if not before throttle went above zero!): Three descending tones. --> mode setup: Following beep tones for mode selection, the number of tones is the mode number. A "mode" is a predefined bunch of settings. With a progtool, ProgCard or ProgDisc, you see the individual parameters.

-----
Generally:
The JIVE is not arming, if he does not recognize a valid throttle-zero pulse at power-up. Make sure that a pulse length for zero will be offered and the pulse is not reverted in the transmitter.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:09 PM   #11
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thats the answer im looking for. thks alot. i supposdd solid led mean no error and good to go? sorry as new to this esc.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:01 PM   #12
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Thanks a bunch for this invaluable post heliloop! Great info here that is really hard to find anywhere else including the jive manual.

They should just replace the programming part of the manual with this post!

And pay you in cash or escs and motors. Lol.

Super thanks for sharing this info.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:45 PM   #13
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I just bought a minijazz 20 for my X2 and have questions about the governor.

First as far as i can see there is no mode 11 for the mini jazz escs, is this correct?

Secondly for the governor in mode 4 i just spool it up at 0* pitch using a constant throttle % and tach the HS adjusting this to desired value. Once i get that right do I need to spool up at zero pitch and wait a bit on every flight? How do i know that the Gov has engaged for each flight?

Just trying to figure out what to expect from the ESC here.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:05 AM   #14
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I have no hands-on experience with the Mini Jive 20, but would say that Mode 11 isn't a big deal unless some of your flight packs are significantly weaker than your strong packs. Even then, you don't HAVE to use Mode 11, it just helps equalize rpm among the different packs, which is nice but not essential.

You understand setting the governor correctly, and you will probably notice the governor kicking in at the end of spool-up as it locks into a set rpm. It's nothing dramatic so there's nothing to worry about.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helioop View Post
You understand setting the governor correctly, and you will probably notice the governor kicking in at the end of spool-up as it locks into a set rpm. It's nothing dramatic so there's nothing to worry about.
I tested the mini jazz today and i noticed something a bit odd, i set the TC to 60% and on 1 pack i got 3800 RPM (which is just fine) so i hovered that pack setting gains etc. HS sounded consistent through pitch pumps etc. Then switched to an identical pack (hyperion 45C 1100mah 3S) and the HS at the same 60% was close to 4100 RPM (packs have the same IR on my charger). I had to drop the curve to 55% to get back around 3800 again.

Is this normal? I did wait for the tail to give a little kick (assume thats when the gov kicks in) seems a pretty large HS variation for identical packs.

I can also confirm that there is no mode 11 (or 10 for that matter) on the min.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:09 AM   #16
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It IS normal. That behaviour is equivalent to mode 4 of the JIVE and to the governor of many other ESC brands.

The ESC spools up according to the given throttle and the ESC/mode-specific relation throttle/PWM until the rpm does not rise anymore. The rpm (the back EMF pulse frequency from the motor) is then taken as the set value.

The reached rpm depends on the battery voltage and the Kv of the motor. So, depending on the current voltage level of the battery, the set rpm differs with each spoolup.

So it looks like that there is in fact a rather huge difference between your two batteries, from their inner resistance I'd guess. (Don't trust too much in the accuracy of the IR measurement by a charger.)

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Old 10-08-2011, 05:53 PM   #17
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COuld be the packs, i had run the first one through a couple of spinups and some ESC programming, might have dropped the terminal voltage a bit. I'll test some brand new charges back to back as soon as the weather cooperates.

The only governor experience i have is with the one built into the SK720, really easy setup but drives the tail on my micros absolutely nuts. The Kontronic one works brilliantly, head speed sounds nice and constant and the tail holds true when i cut power to drop it fast, tail used to get all wobbly as the head sped up on descent. In fact it does such a good job compared to the curves that I had to drop the tail precomp on the MB down a notch (i guess it was compensating for lost HS as well as rotor torque).

Just have to get used to it i think, programming is a sinch, only one problem I want one for all my helis now (fortunately I only have micros but still...)
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:15 AM   #18
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Just curious if I need to program Mode 4 if I am going to use Mode 11. I am running the 80+ jive on an trex 800e stretch with Xera 4035 4y- 300kv. I am just going through the initial esc setup and am scratching my head. So should I program mode 1,4,9,10,11? of skip 4 if I use 11.
EDIT: I think I now realize I skip Mode 4 if I am going to use Mode 11. Correct me if I am wrong. So I will program 1,9,11,10

Last edited by tahoelight; 10-09-2011 at 01:17 AM..
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Correct me if I am wrong.
No need for.

After setting of mode 11 (mode 5 with the HeliJIVE): Don't play with throttle before a 1st "regular" spoolup!
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexf1852 View Post
Be aware that if you have verion 9 of the firmware and you program mode 9 after mode 4 or 11, then your LVC will be set to cut-off power and NOT lower power when lipo reaches LVC. You will need one of the prog cards to set it back to low power option. Or just don't set Lipo mode 9 at all.
How do I check which firmware version I'm running?
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