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Old 03-30-2011, 11:25 AM   #41
Misfitwrx
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I just got a KDS 450sv with the flymentor installed from the factory, i am also using the stock k-7x transmitter that came with the heli. I had a few questions, first even though the TX is set to 1 servo (no mixing) in the settings the values are not at 0% for swash mix, will this affect anything? Or should I put them all at zero? And second is about the tail servo, while the tail holds pretty decent considering I'm using the fm gyro I noticed that I am reaching the endpoint of the travel long before my rudder stick reaches max movement? The travel setting in fm software didn't seem to help much


Edit: thanks ivor tail is working ok I must have been really tired haha. Oh and a note to anyone that buys a KDS 450 with the flymentor preinstalled from KDS and it also comes with the k-7x transmitter, I'm not sure if it's just my model but with some tinkering I discovered that even though the TX is set up for helicopter 1 servo(no ccpm mixing) you actually can't have the swash mixes at zero. Mine came from factory all set at 80 and it was way too much swash travel so I lowered it all to 0 and the swash didn't move at all!! I then bumped them up to 60 and now I have a good pitch range with around 5-6 degrees of cyclic control. I havnt tried position mode yet since I made those changes, but I wonder if it was over correcting before because of the insane amount of swash travel. And all this is working independent of the flymentor programing, how strange is that??

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Old 03-30-2011, 12:59 PM   #42
Ivor Hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoyer View Post
IvorI have read your information with intrest as I too have a Flymentor installed on a KDS 450. I do have one thing I would like to ask you and that is; I am using the KDS transmitter that came with the heli and was wondering about set-up using it. The manual is ?????The heli flies well but seems not to have a good position hold mode. Have you any suggestions?
Hi, can't help with the KDS transmitter but if you are flying and FM is working you seem to have set it up ok .
Positional hold, First if you have used any more that a few clicks of tx trim to get the heli to hover you need to reset the swash a little so you are not useing so much tx trim, FM does not like a lot of tx trim. Then in position mode increase the balancer positional gain ( default 70 ) untill the heli dances a little then reduce untill untill it just stops. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:34 PM   #43
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Ivor;

I guess you know by now that I am not an expert on heli's. When you say to set up the swash, do you mean set it up mechanicly? It does take a lot of right aileron to get it to hover reasonably well.

Thanks
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:05 PM   #44
Ivor Hill
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Originally Posted by jmoyer View Post
Ivor;

I guess you know by now that I am not an expert on heli's. When you say to set up the swash, do you mean set it up mechanicly? It does take a lot of right aileron to get it to hover reasonably well.

Thanks
Not normally necessary. Under the servo tab you will find sliders that adjust the angle of the swash just like the tx trims. Count how many clicks of trim you have used and add or subtract that number from the numbers on the sliders and send to fm to achieve the same swash position. Or just do it by eye and test fly again.
.If you read and followed the instructions at the top of the stabilization section you should have already used these along with travel adjust under the control tab to centre and level the swash. You will learn a lot about the FM programme if you use these instructions.
Don't worry about not being an expert ( I am not ) we learn as we go along ask as many questions as you want. There are a lot of very helpfull guy's here and they rarely loose patience.
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:06 PM   #45
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Ivor;Thanks for the information. You have been loads of help to this newbie. There is an additional question, if I may ask, When I lift the heli off it goes left at a good clip. I put in all the right trim the TX has but still have to hold right stick. The swash plate seems to be level. I was wondering if maybe the gyro has an offset or is suffering from vibration. I read in another thread that a fellow had a similar problem and put a different mounting tape under it and it cured the problem. What do you think? Otherwise the heli flies good.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:02 PM   #46
Ivor Hill
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Ivor;Thanks for the information. You have been loads of help to this newbie. There is an additional question, if I may ask, When I lift the heli off it goes left at a good clip. I put in all the right trim the TX has but still have to hold right stick. The swash plate seems to be level. I was wondering if maybe the gyro has an offset or is suffering from vibration. I read in another thread that a fellow had a similar problem and put a different mounting tape under it and it cured the problem. What do you think? Otherwise the heli flies good.
It is normal for a heli to move left on lift off although less so will FM fitted. I tend to increase throttle very slowly and watch the blades, I keep them level useing the stick. Some of my heli's will lift off and go staight into a hover without help others need a little right stick, I have learned to use the sticks when the heli is getting light on the skids so I have control before it leaves the ground.
Some guy's take off on smooth ground so the heli can slide a little, others lift off quickly to get it clear of the ground.
It may be that you are getting some vibs as you increase throttle and that upsetting the gyro's a little so it's worth trying mounting differently.
I recently tried mounting a gyro under the heli just in front of the rear skid, seem to work very well. Less vibration there than on the boom mount. So I think that's where they will be going from now on. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:04 PM   #47
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I also moved my gyro into the same position with much better results using the much thicker and better adhesive zeal tape. This also allowed me to use the gyro pad for a two axis bubble level that insures the FM gyro is dead on before lift off. It makes a huge difference in holding Pmode also.
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Old 04-03-2011, 05:25 PM   #48
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Hi, I finally managed to set FM to move the swashplate in opposite directions from gyro, but i have 6 channel E_sky 0406A transmitter with is btw analog, i can't set any trims and anything much on the Tx, so I figured how to set it for no mixing, then i had to make Y connector for channel 3 which is used for pitch and throttle , but when i turn off the mixing with jumpers on Tx , chanel 3 can be only used for 1 only, so i made Y connector to have throttle and pitch, this now works, however i got problem that now when mixing is off i can't use any other switches for controling modes of FM, channel 5 and 6 now seem useless,even green wire is connected, FM when initializes has flashing green.. any ideas how to make it work, should i re solder something in my Tx?
and one more problem i have, since i started using FM, i've tried with 2 different ESC's that worked just fine until i stared with FM, ESC's start to overheat very quickly like there's a too much Amperage drawn, and it doesn't overheat on side of a heat sink, but the opposite side, where BEC is,,,anyone had this issue?
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:31 AM   #49
alodsman
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Cool Fly mentor

Hi guys ,

Ive noticed a few guys are having problems setting up the KDS. I just want some opnions on weter i should invest in the KDS vs SPARTAN API 2000i.

there is a big price difference and im not shure if the spartan is 50% better so that it would justify the cost. What i really want is to stablise the heli and when i dont kneed it i switch it off.not shure if i can do this with the Spartan.

Another issue is i was origonally just gona get a good gyro the Spartan Quark. If i go with the KDS path do i still need a seprate tail gyro or is the KDS good enough.

Pls give me comparisons with the API 2000i and the KDS.

given that the kds is a peizo gyro how well does it fair?
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:09 PM   #50
nlodoen
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Ivor (or any other Flymentor expert),
I installed a Flymentor on my TRex 450 V1 SE this winter and have just made my first six or so flights with it this week. For the most part, it works quite well (in large part thanks to Ivor's setup instructions) and I definitly am more comfortable flying it than I was last summer thanks to the stabilization assistance. The only issue I'm having is that, while the balance mode works quite well (with some drift that I have resolve), the position mode doesn't seem to hold at all regardless of the height I'm flying at. I typically hover at between 1 and 3m so I'm not to high or anything. I have a DX6i radio and am using two switches to control the mode (off, on-stabilize, on-position). The LEDs on the FM unit are showing the correct colour (red, red/green, green) but it just doesn't seem to be holding position at all. If I just hold the heli 1m off the ground with the motor off and move it over something with a pattern, it doesn't appear that the swash is moving at all. The LED is flashing green most of the time which indicates that the camera isn't locking onto something (I think).
Any idea what might be wrong? I have the gains set to about 70% and -70% (via the two TX switches). I don't think I have much vibration - can vibration prevent the camera from locking? Given it doesn't appear to lock when I'm just holding the heli, I don't think that is it but thought I would ask.
I'm open to any suggestions anyone might have. Thanks to all of you guys who take the time to help us FM rookies get these fairly tricky things working!

Nathan
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Old 04-16-2011, 04:15 PM   #51
Ivor Hill
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A green flashing LED means that it is in position most but there is not enough contrast. it shoult turn to solid green if you hold the heli a few inches off the ground.
If it does turn solid green you then need to increase position gain untill the heli starts to dance a little in a low hover and then reduce untill it just stops dancing.
I always recomend that FM it set up useing the software first, blue wire disconnected and gain set in helibal.
Provided you have not changed anything on the advance page, try disconnecting the blue wire and see if it is any better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nlodoen View Post
Ivor (or any other Flymentor expert),
I installed a Flymentor on my TRex 450 V1 SE this winter and have just made my first six or so flights with it this week. For the most part, it works quite well (in large part thanks to Ivor's setup instructions) and I definitly am more comfortable flying it than I was last summer thanks to the stabilization assistance. The only issue I'm having is that, while the balance mode works quite well (with some drift that I have resolve), the position mode doesn't seem to hold at all regardless of the height I'm flying at. I typically hover at between 1 and 3m so I'm not to high or anything. I have a DX6i radio and am using two switches to control the mode (off, on-stabilize, on-position). The LEDs on the FM unit are showing the correct colour (red, red/green, green) but it just doesn't seem to be holding position at all. If I just hold the heli 1m off the ground with the motor off and move it over something with a pattern, it doesn't appear that the swash is moving at all. The LED is flashing green most of the time which indicates that the camera isn't locking onto something (I think).
Any idea what might be wrong? I have the gains set to about 70% and -70% (via the two TX switches). I don't think I have much vibration - can vibration prevent the camera from locking? Given it doesn't appear to lock when I'm just holding the heli, I don't think that is it but thought I would ask.
I'm open to any suggestions anyone might have. Thanks to all of you guys who take the time to help us FM rookies get these fairly tricky things working!

Nathan
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:54 AM   #52
nlodoen
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Originally Posted by Ivor Hill View Post
A green flashing LED means that it is in position most but there is not enough contrast. it shoult turn to solid green if you hold the heli a few inches off the ground.
If it does turn solid green you then need to increase position gain untill the heli starts to dance a little in a low hover and then reduce untill it just stops dancing.
I always recomend that FM it set up useing the software first, blue wire disconnected and gain set in helibal.
Provided you have not changed anything on the advance page, try disconnecting the blue wire and see if it is any better.
Thanks Ivor! That's what I thought as far as the flashing green LED. I have only been able to get it go solid green in a few cases when I hold it above a pattern/object with very distinctive contrast. It just seemed that the camera was having a hard time picking up the ground no matter the location/situation. Of course, if the problem is the camera not being able to "see" the ground the gain won't come into play so I was just wondering if there was a setting to increase the camera's ability to detect movement. It sounds like there isn't so I'll give disconnecting the blue wire a try and see if there is any improvement. Thanks again for all of your time helping us out!

Nathan
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:34 PM   #53
Ivor Hill
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Originally Posted by nlodoen View Post
Thanks Ivor! That's what I thought as far as the flashing green LED. I have only been able to get it go solid green in a few cases when I hold it above a pattern/object with very distinctive contrast. It just seemed that the camera was having a hard time picking up the ground no matter the location/situation. Of course, if the problem is the camera not being able to "see" the ground the gain won't come into play so I was just wondering if there was a setting to increase the camera's ability to detect movement. It sounds like there isn't so I'll give disconnecting the blue wire a try and see if there is any improvement. Thanks again for all of your time helping us out!

Nathan
The camera needs light and pattern, it does not like black and white, grass is a good surface. In daylight the LED will turn solid green just a little off the ground over grass.There is no adjustment for this, it either works or it don't.
Gain will still have an effect even if the camera is not working and so should be set.
But if the camera is not working it would probably be better to use balance mode.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:36 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ivor Hill View Post
The camera needs light and pattern, it does not like black and white, grass is a good surface. In daylight the LED will turn solid green just a little off the ground over grass.There is no adjustment for this, it either works or it don't.
Gain will still have an effect even if the camera is not working and so should be set.
But if the camera is not working it would probably be better to use balance mode.
As the weather here has been cold and windy, I haven't been able to get out and try the heli with your suggested settings. I wanted to play around a bit indoors last night and discovered that a chess board gives a good lock with the camera (LED goes solid green) from about 2 feet and up so I now know my camera is OK. Decided to do some testing and found that if I move the heli left or right over the chess board (no motor running - just holding it in my hand) the head correctly compensates for the movement. When I move the heli forward and back however there is far less compensation (barely noticable compared to the left/right compensation) and, it appears to be compensating in the wrong direction (as best I can tell with the small movement). I bumped up the gains to 9 to see if I could increase the fore/aft compensation but it didn't make any difference. Note that the balance mode compensation in all four directions works properly when I tip the heli in any of the directions.
Can you think of any reason or setting that would cause the fore/aft positioning compensation to be so low (and possibly reversed) when the left/right positioning compensation and fore/aft/left/right balancing compensation are all correct? I know I can fly without the position mode working but would like to get it working if possible as I'm still pretty new to helis. Thanks again.

Nathan
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:16 AM   #55
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IVOR i read your instractions and i like to ask when we adjust fm with mid stick to make servos 90 dec we do that with idle up or normal mode in the tx?
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:06 PM   #56
Ivor Hill
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It is normal for elevator corrections to be a lot less than aileron, at default settings front and back correction would be 70% of side to side movement. It can be changed by adjusting elevator gain at the bottom of the advance page but not advisable, it's preset is 7 which represent's 70% of aileron movement.
Be sure the gyro and camera are facing the same direction,the programe is set for that direction and the info has been sent to FM.
Not conviced that your camera is ok all mine will go solid green 5-6 inches off the ground,on a sunny day over grass it will be solid green on the ground so be carefull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nlodoen View Post
As the weather here has been cold and windy, I haven't been able to get out and try the heli with your suggested settings. I wanted to play around a bit indoors last night and discovered that a chess board gives a good lock with the camera (LED goes solid green) from about 2 feet and up so I now know my camera is OK. Decided to do some testing and found that if I move the heli left or right over the chess board (no motor running - just holding it in my hand) the head correctly compensates for the movement. When I move the heli forward and back however there is far less compensation (barely noticable compared to the left/right compensation) and, it appears to be compensating in the wrong direction (as best I can tell with the small movement). I bumped up the gains to 9 to see if I could increase the fore/aft compensation but it didn't make any difference. Note that the balance mode compensation in all four directions works properly when I tip the heli in any of the directions.
Can you think of any reason or setting that would cause the fore/aft positioning compensation to be so low (and possibly reversed) when the left/right positioning compensation and fore/aft/left/right balancing compensation are all correct? I know I can fly without the position mode working but would like to get it working if possible as I'm still pretty new to helis. Thanks again.

Nathan
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:23 PM   #57
Ivor Hill
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Originally Posted by gargi0048 View Post
IVOR i read your instractions and i like to ask when we adjust fm with mid stick to make servos 90 dec we do that with idle up or normal mode in the tx?
Temporaily set up a linier curve ( 0-25-50-75-100 ) in normal mode.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:04 PM   #58
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I just flew a few minutes ago and want to mention that I did use the new Turnigy DS480 servo. When using the Flymentor as the tail gyro and using a DX6i TX I ended up having to set my gyro pos 0 at 47% and my gyro pos 1 at 41.5% to eliminate tail wag completely. I am not sure if this is because this heli has a heavier body due to extensive upgrade mods or if using 500cf tail blades and Heim Joint's chinese weights made the tail more sensitive, but I wanted those of you flying with DX6i radios to take notice. For some reason the factory advised settings resulted in a nasty tail wagging session. I eliminated most of it on my rotating test stand before the flight and dialed out the rest during the hover. After this it floated around like a dream and was perfectly tractable. I also Zee taped the FM gyro underneath the body and added a two axis level where the original gyro would sit so I could at least position it somewhat level on the grass. I put the gyro mounting pad underneath the boom mount so I can add a top mounted gyro later there out of the way. I have a pic of a gyro mounted there just as a reference in the zeal tape thread along with the FM gyro mount.
P.S. At this gain setting though I have noticed that the servo will not give me complete tail travel. It stops about 1/8 inch off the right stop on the tail blade shaft. But if I drop it even by .5 it starts tail wagging.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:21 PM   #59
benyi2
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Hello Ivor set the tx as you said.
Just when I throttle the engine does not rotate.
Since you set the tx to rotate the engine

thanks.

Benjamin.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:45 PM   #60
Ivor Hill
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Hello Ivor set the tx as you said.
Just when I throttle the engine does not rotate.
Since you set the tx to rotate the engine

thanks.

Benjamin.
( Since you set the tx to rotate the engine ) does not make sense to me.

But my instructions told you not to change the reverse setting on channel 3 ( throttle channel ) so if you followed these instuctions your throttle would be exactly the same as it was before.
None of the settings I told you to change would stop the motor ( engine ) from rotating.
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