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Old 04-27-2011, 06:03 PM   #61
Luvmyhelis
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When you set your swash at 0 you don't do this unless the motor wires are disconnected since in some radios setting the swash at 0 and the servos at 90 is different in throttle hold. I like Ivor am mystified by you stating you set the tx to rotate the engine. Did you do this in the TX with the motor wires disabled? Or by disabling the motor with the esc setting if your esc is programmable? Fm does not recognize the throttle signal, only the pitch signal. So if you lost your throttle signal it has nothing to do with FM but in your wiring to the receiver or your radio settings.
Sorry to interrupt.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:45 AM   #62
Woody05
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I am really new to helis and need some advice for FM setup. I think I am really close to getting FM setup.
Problrm at the moment is the heli is spinning anti clockwise and i cant correct with the stick.
2nd issue is the right stick is function in reverse when i push either forward or backwards. Pitching to the left and right is correct.

When i got the heli off the ground today to was spinning everything else seemed ok for the few seconds it was off the ground.

Heli is a KDS 450s

Any help would be great.
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:16 PM   #63
Ivor Hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody05 View Post
I am really new to helis and need some advice for FM setup. I think I am really close to getting FM setup.
Problrm at the moment is the heli is spinning anti clockwise and i cant correct with the stick.
2nd issue is the right stick is function in reverse when i push either forward or backwards. Pitching to the left and right is correct.

When i got the heli off the ground today to was spinning everything else seemed ok for the few seconds it was off the ground.

Heli is a KDS 450s

Any help would be great.
Have you read the sticky at the top of the page. Changing direction under the servo tab reverses servo's and changing directions under the control tab changes stick direction.
If the elevator stick is backward, reverve elevator on the control page.
Assuming your are useing the FM tail gyro there are 2 setting for direction. Under the servo tab you can change the servo ( gyro ) direction and under the control tab you can change the stick direction.
On most helis, looking at the tail from the rear set the servo (gyro) direction (servo tab) so that if to move the tail by hand to the left the tail slider moves right.
Then check the stick again if you move the stick left the tail slider should move right,control tab.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:26 PM   #64
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Hello Ivor,

I have just made two flights with FM which I installed out of the box with the FM gyro on an HK450 with a Turnigy E500 6T 4000KV outrunner and 325 carbon fiber blades. My project is to use the heli with a Bell 212 Twin Huey fuselage, which explains the larger KV motor in order to handle the higher weight of the heli, fuse, FM and 3600 mAh battery. Transmitter is a Futaba 7C FM/PCM with a full-range 8 channel Futaba RX

My first flight with the FM gyro was successful, with the blue cable disconnected. After doing more reading of the manual I understood that the gyro and balancer gains can be controlled on the TX so the next flight was done with both cables (blue and green) connected to their respective ports. With the 3-position switch in Position-mode I had a nicely floating heli, and even did two landings from 3 ft without touching the right stick (aileron / elevator). Tried to fly it in Horizontal mode and it drifted sideways depending on where the wind blew. It did keep horizontal but was difficult to control. What may be happening? Flight on center-switch (FM off) was very unstable, however one gets easily used to the lower pilot workload which the FM provides.

On both flights I needed to dial almost 1/4 right rudder trim in order to compensate the heli's tendency to point to the left so it would keep straight, but it still drifts to one side or the other. What can I do to solve this problem?

Also, I plan to change the current blades with 360 ones as there is space available because of the Twin Huey's extended-elevated tail rotor. Think I will also use larger area tail blades from an old TT 325e heli which I have around. It seems that the rudder keeps compensating the large torque from the rotor so larger tail blades may help.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Carlos A. Cordova
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:30 PM   #65
andre6553
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Default Belt Cp setup with Hitec Aurora9 Radio

Here is my settings
flymentor 3D
Port1=Pitch
Port2=Aile
Port3=Ele
Port4=emty
Port5=rud

optima9 Rx wiring
ch1=3wires from fm
ch2=yellow
ch3=ESC
ch4=gray
Ch5=green
ch6=orange
ch7=blue

Software servo tab
ser1=nor
ser2=rev
ser3=rev
tail ser=nor

software control tab
aileron=nor
ele=rev
pitch=rev
yaw=nor

Radio settings Hitec Aurora9
ch1=Aile
ch2=Elev
Ch3=Thro
Ch4=Rudd
Ch5=Aux1 switch C tree possition swith on radio
ch6=pich
Ch7=Aux1 swith C on radio down position

Servo reverse on radio
Ch1=nor
Ch2=rev
ch3=nor
ch4=nor
ch5=nor
ch6=nor
ch7=nor

Model type on Hitec radio is swash type 1servo 90(this is for the trottle and blade pitch mix)

Hope this can help with someone that used the Hitec radio and Esky Belt Cp heli.
Settings may be different on other helis it all depent on how your servos is conected what i mean where they are and witch way the horn is facing on the servo.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:21 PM   #66
Ivor Hill
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I assume you are useing endpoints to contol the gain,what values have you set ?.
The heli should be trimmed with either FM switched off or in balance mode and if you have to use more that 2-3 clicks of TX trim the swash should be re-adjusted useing the software, FM does not like TX trim.
If you are going to fit it in a scale fuse why bother changing modes I fly my scales in position mode all the time.
The tail should be set in rate ( normal ) mode and by sliding the servo along the boom untill the tail holds in a hover without useing trim or stick, the slider will be offset towards the boom. You should then set servo travel so the slider does not bottom out, switch to HH and set the best gain.
Take care and keep an eye on temperature that's a very weak motor to be used for scale heli's and IMHO you should not fit bigger blades. I have a 450 Heliartist Huey that flys fine with standard blades.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:23 PM   #67
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I agree with the size of the blades being limited by your motor. You can probably use these at most.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-pro-3351.html
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:43 PM   #68
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I have a DX6i, GY401 and a FM hopefully on the way. Won;t get shipping total till tomorrow. But, my Q is FM work just set in postion mode? Or ballance and I use the GY401. After reading and realizing the FM tail gyro is no better than the G110 Eflight Gyro. I don;t think I want to use the FM gyro. So that means, I will have to keep my 5th channel for the GY410 gain. I don;t do 3D, but I want to do flips, rolls, loops, and inverted flight/hover. Will the FM be ok for me or should I save my pennies for something else? PS, right now I have a Blade 400.

Help me decide before I make payment
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:07 PM   #69
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Most guys just leave FM in pos mode and fly. Anytime you get it up high enough it enters into bal mode automatically and you fly as you would normally. However it will not invert. This is the reason I went with an externally programmable gyro although it still responds to pos1 and 2 on ch5 if need be. The blue wire on FM is what can trigger the stability feature on or off by using ch#5 gain values or by Ch 7 toggle. If you want to control it (turn the stability feature off) Via TX you have to loose your control of the external gyro/use FM tail gyro/or go with a 7ch TX.
Consider that lots of guys have done successful mild flying like you are talking about with piezo gyros without incident. However flymentor is not a bailout system like the Sk-720. It is mainly a training system for straight up flight and a safety net for various reasons. When you invert it it will confuse the FM unless you have the stability feature dialed way down to the point where it is hardly invasive and you are pretty much flying with little aid. While doing this in the full stability mode it will confuse the FM and may cause a wreck while hunting for its normal bearings. If I am correct the FM tail gyro still works even when the stab feature is disabled. So if you can live with a piezo tail gyro the Fm could work doing inverted flight when the blue wire is connected and disabled in the TX.
This will work because you can set the tail gyro in the field programmer to rate or hh. One or the other. And just fly with one setting.
Your only other option for inverted flight is helicommand or Sk-720. And I am not sure the HC will work with a flybar. Both are well above $400.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:12 AM   #70
Ivor Hill
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Flymentor is capable of inverted flight,have a looks at the KDS sales video. However it is not capable of doing 3D or stunt flying when multiple moves close together are involved. The gyros need time between each move to work out where they are, to many moves close together will confuse it. The same can be said for Helicommand. If your ambitions are 3D Flymentor or Helicommand are not suitable unless you turn them off during these manuvers.
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Old 05-21-2011, 12:33 PM   #71
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Ahh, interesting. I saw so many posts from guys in various forums about the issues with inverting at full FM default that I just assumed it wasn't worth the risk. Glad you straightened me out.
It sounds like BP is just doing mild stuff. I am highly interested in how this works out. Looks like I am going to have to put in some time and research eyeballing guys that have done this like you have Ivor since I was planning on inverting mine but dialing it way down. If I can dial it back up for just inverted hover practice this is just stellar. I have it set way down now to where it only has a moderate effect in upright flight.
Cool, I just learned somthin from the master!
Again.
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Old 05-21-2011, 01:19 PM   #72
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Ya I turned down the deal on the FM. Untill I know for sure how it reacts inverted etc, I can't afford to spend the $. I really eventually want FBL, that I know. I just hate the look of FB, even on a Pod and Boom heli. FM is about halfway to a Vbar, so if I just have some patience, maybe my skills will improve on their own?? HAHAHA
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:23 PM   #73
Ivor Hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post
Ahh, interesting. I saw so many posts from guys in various forums about the issues with inverting at full FM default that I just assumed it wasn't worth the risk. Glad you straightened me out.
It sounds like BP is just doing mild stuff. I am highly interested in how this works out. Looks like I am going to have to put in some time and research eyeballing guys that have done this like you have Ivor since I was planning on inverting mine but dialing it way down. If I can dial it back up for just inverted hover practice this is just stellar. I have it set way down now to where it only has a moderate effect in upright flight.
Cool, I just learned somthin from the master!
Again.
If you hold your heli upsidedown and tip it you will find the swash will correct in the correct direction the same as it does if the heli is upright so there is no reason why it should not work inverted but I would think it would need to be switched to balance mode because light would be directed directly into the camera and might have an adverse effect on position mode.
I think that most guys that use FM are beginners and so unlikly to invert,that's why there are so few reports on it, I hate sims but do think that inverting needs to be mastered on the sim before attempting it with a heli with or without stabilization.
I also think that a system with fast upright recovery would be better for learning inverted, stunts or 3D. FM or HC does not offer fast recovery so you are more likely to crash.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:42 PM   #74
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ALMOST THERE!!

Hi Ivor and group,

my latest testing was disconnecting both green and blue wires from the RX thus giving FM full authority over gyro and balancer and the result was great for my scale project. The heli hovers completly leveled and indeed can stay over a specific point where it works under position mode. There is some tail wag which I tried to solve by lowering the servo sensitivity, however it only goes down to 2 using the programming card (impossible to link FM to my PC no matter everything I tried). I am currently using a digital servo which seems to be too much for the balancer so I will switch to a Futaba 3107 micro servo and return the servo sensitivity to the original values. I have been using the 3107 for non-3D apps very successfully so this will be the way to go.

In the end, the easiest to do for my scale project seems to be keep everything simple: 900XT servos for collective, Futaba 3107 for tail, full FM authority over tail and balancer with green and blue wires disconnected.

When using the Futaba 7CAP TX for balancer control I used 100% endpoints and had some "dancing", so it was necessary to dial endpoints down to 70% where "dancing" stopped.

Control over the tail servo was a different story with my TX. If the corresponding wire is connected I don't know what Gyro settings need to be programmed: GY or STD? and the gyro mode Normal / AVCS? Since I could not get any results and did not want to damage the FM gyro I decided to try FM to control the gyro and had success this way.

BTW, I adjusted 90-degree to the collective servos with a swash leveling tool: took the head out, placed the leveling tool on the shaft and did the adjustments with the programming card. Not difficult.

OTOH, I tested the heli with the larger blades. They are actually 350 when measuring from the grip hole to the tip of the blade. The blades have tapered tips for the last 10 mm. The motor's temperature was the same as with the shorter carbon blades with which I did my first trial flights. The larger blades are also lighter and thinner, and have that nice "hiper-lifting trailing edge". Maybe it is all those differences which help.

Now I am preparing the 212 fuse to assemble everything and continue testing with the completed model. I will keep an eye on the motor's temp as Ivor recommends. Which motor would be better instead of the -500?

Happy flying,

Carlos A. Cordova
QUITO - ECUADOR
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:02 PM   #75
Ivor Hill
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The TX shoud be set to GY and you should set up a 2 way switch so you can select N or HH. Set up should be done in normal mode because the servo will centre in normal mode and then switch to HH and set the best gain.
I use Scorpion HK-2221-8 motors with Hobbywing pentium 40 amp esc with programmer for set up with a 10 tooth pinion. Everything remains cool even with widows fitted to the fuse.
For testing I fix a weight to the skids equal to the weight of the fuse under the main shaft and fly 20-30 packs before fitting it in the fuse to be on the safe side.
The 10 tooth pinion will take a lot of load off the motor battery and esc.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:34 PM   #76
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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ivor Hill View Post
    If you hold your heli upsidedown and tip it you will find the swash will correct in the correct direction the same as it does if the heli is upright so there is no reason why it should not work inverted but I would think it would need to be switched to balance mode because light would be directed directly into the camera and might have an adverse effect on position mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivor Hill View Post
I think that most guys that use FM are beginners and so unlikly to invert,that's why there are so few reports on it, I hate sims but do think that inverting needs to be mastered on the sim before attempting it with a heli with or without stabilization.
I also think that a system with fast upright recovery would be better for learning inverted, stunts or 3D. FM or HC does not offer fast recovery so you are more likely to crash.
Thanks Ivor, I understand completely what you are saying. I have spent some sim time (phoenix) inverted. 3D is just not my bag so all my flying would bore an avid 3D'er to death. You answered my reservation to the sensor up question while you were at it also. When I do invert it will be with a fair distance/cushion of air underneath the heli for recovery. I haven't wrecked in a while now (100+ flights) and it feels really great! Like to keep it that way.
My hunt for an fbl system has ended up on the Sk-720 as the best solution with the bail out option to save my goose in a pinch as they say. I am pretty sure this is the system that will end up in my chaos 700e this summer. I have been watching nightflyers build on his 700 and am going to copy a few of his ideas.
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:37 AM   #77
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Default Flymentor inverted

Hi all,
Came across this
whilst doing research...go to 1:28
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:56 PM   #78
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Default Hi there

just a quick thank you for all the great info
I am now running 2 birds on flymentor both scale Hughes 500E and a Bell 212
I started this hobby in Febuary and the first HK450 I planted in the garden tail first (totalled it)
so after buying the next HK450 kit and finding out about the flymentor i buiilt up and have the confidence and knowlege that while learning if i got dumb thumb i can just let go of stick and it will right itself and give me time to get back into the grove


this was the first flight of the 212 after build it is way lighter and more responsive than the 500E
i run the gain for the flymentor on a pot dial on my turnigy 9x as the 212 sits low on ground so take off on 1/4 dial but the 500E sits high so can takeoff on 1/2 dial and depending on wind conditions can dial up or down
Cheers
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:05 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanB View Post
Hi all,
Came across this video whilst doing research...go to 1:28
I started to try inverted the other day with my FM'd Blade 400 but chickened out halfway through the roll. For what it's worth I did my first aileron roll though! I still don't completely trust the FM setup yet. I have a SK720 on my FBL Trex 450 Pro and with the latest firmware it should be able to do self level inverted, but with $1k flying around up there, I'm even more chicken to try it with that.
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:20 PM   #80
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Hi perhaps someone may be able to shed some light on this
I have used the frsky v2 tele module and reciever in my JR X-388s 8ch radio along with the flymentor in a HK450 pro tt , all works great except for 1 small abnormality .......
Bit of a strange one , I setup the system to use the gear channel to control the flymentor gain and the aux 2 to control the flymentor gyro:
This works if I use my 36 meg fm modules with no problems , however when using the frsky module and receiver i can use any combination of either the gear switch or the aux switch or even aux 3 ... to control either the gyro gain or the flymentor gain..... but if both the blue wire and the green wire are connected at the same time the whole system goes into random servo jitters.
As a work around i have disconnected the flymentor gain wire and set it in the heliball program to stay in position mode and leave the gyro gain connected so I can remote switch the gyro heading hold on and off : I always flick the heading hold off breifly then back on after I set the heli down ready to fly , it prevents the heli from doing unwanted piros on take off HEH
Has any one else had this same problem with using a frsky and flymentor combo.
No big deal if I cant switch the flymentor gain on and off, as it auto switches from position to balance mode above 3 meters any way, and the whole system is going into a Huges 500 scale model so aerobatics won't be on the menu so to speak and the stabilizer will be on all the time any way, Alternatively I could use a separate gyro for the tail I guess.

As I said before the problem goes away if I use the old 36 fm module and receiver instead of the frsky.
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