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Old 03-18-2011, 09:46 AM   #21
sutty
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I bash nitros, from twenty years ago, and currently. They were marvels of engineering then, and they are marvels of engineering now, but there is no getting away from the fact that they are noisy, and messy. After a couple of years I would often have to replace the entire front end of a balsa and plywood model because it had been rotted by the fumes and oil from the engine, and sometimes even more components. No matter how hard you tried, it gets everywhere.

They might be all sorts of other things as well, cool, powerful, precision, awesome, whatever, but I am not prepared to put up with that noise or oil anymore. I am sick of it, and since moving to electric helis I will never look back. Electric rocks, and I love it.

Of course it has its place, and is appropriate for many, just not for me. Enjoy, Jonny and Denis, lol.

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Old 03-18-2011, 10:22 AM   #22
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I agree with you Sut. I wasn't very clear in my post, I was more thinking of the starting issues people go on about.

Don't get me wrong, I think I would prefer electric to nitro. Just sticking up for nitro as it can be great. If you don't like putting up with the mess then avoid nitro, though...

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Old 03-18-2011, 12:32 PM   #23
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This is just to prove that when it comes to appeal, to everyone's his own, gentlemen, otherwise we would be like over a billion of Chinese 20 years ago that were told to like the same thing and behave the same, scary concept, isn't it?

As I'm an electronic engineer by education and trade for me there is no question of superiority of E over N in every aspect these days, with the latest advances in electrical storage and propulsion systems, and I with the latest technology I literally mean EVERY aspect: noise, pollution, power, flight duration, and we haven't seen the end of it yet, obviously.

Still, nitros have a huge appeal to me because of the sentimental value: they remind me of my teenage days tinkering with, fixing and rebuilding cheap piece of crap moped engines that were being built in back then communist Poland. Overall they used to make my mother rather happy, as they rarely ran lowering the risk of moped accidents, but they were filling me with lots of pride and feeling of accomplishment in the brief moments that I managed to make them run decently, and I just don't get the same sentiment from electric motors.

Yes, the electric helis pose the same challenge to fly, but the motor runs all by itself, no trouble at all!
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:59 PM   #24
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As someone on the main thread put so well: I love the sound and smell and fun of those little engines, doing there small little engine things, seems so much more real. I want to try a gasser, have for sometime but can't get myself to pay $300+ for a motor, would be the same if I went with an electric I guess but still.. Sigh.

Denis how have you been progressing?
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:28 PM   #25
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So electric is the superior of the two. But there's more reasons to getting a nitro than just sentimental reasons.

No over night charging and fuel up and go appeals to me. Apart from that though, electrics probably win on everything else.

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Old 03-18-2011, 02:07 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnyheli View Post
No over night charging and fuel up and go appeals to me.
Indeed it seems to have been the last hurdle, Jonny, but it seems Raf has solved it already quite nicely!
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:38 PM   #27
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Finished reading all manuals. Still can't get this bloody screw out

I'll have to get some new tools tomorrow

As for the E vs N thing, I found N suits me for now. But I would still like a big e when I have the time.
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
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As for the E vs N thing, I found N suits me for now. But I would still like a big e when I have the time.
Same, I want a 6HV or Logo 600. But I also want a Traxxas Revo 3.3 and an electric rc plane, so yea...

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Old 03-21-2011, 04:58 PM   #29
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Hey Everyone,

Just to keep you updated I finally managed to work out a way to get those screws out. I've been stuck on it a few days, but I've sorted it now and ready to progress further. They definately had too much thread lock on, didn't look like the blue stuff anyway. Could have used Red is suppose? Tried applying heat, but didn't seem to work. Maybe the heat hadn't penetrated deep enough?

I managed to remove the other 3 screws from each bearing block, then use a little force to prise the frame apart from the bearing block with the 1 remaining screw in it.

Then I used my plumbers grips to steady the head of the stripped screw, and rotated the whole bearing block with my hand. Only with all that force could I get the threadlock to break!!

The screws turned out to be button head M3 screws, and not self tappers. They just looked the same. You were right Gaz!! Thankfully I won't need new bearing blocks now, or having to re-tap them after suffering from self-tapper abuse.

I noticed a mistake I made earlier about the hex frame mounts on the fan shroud. They are plastic, not metal as previous stated . Only noticed the difference once I wiped the oil of them Eitherway, it still had 2 x M3 screws and 2 x self-tappers in it, so 2 of the screws were definately the worng one's. Right again Gaz!!


Oops my bedtime already, well, now I typed all that i'll have to squeeze another 30 mins before bed to get that mcpx flight checked.
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:27 AM   #30
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There is one other point you guys forget, nitro's cost a hell of a lot less to get into the air...

I know all to well, I managed to get two nitro's flying before I could get one going. Lot less upfront cost to having fun.
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:42 AM   #31
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There is one other point you guys forget, nitro's cost a hell of a lot less to get into the air...
True, but not all that much more with the recent drop in battery costs, will get offset by the fuel cost really quick once you start flying.
I just managed to go through a gallon of nitro ($45) in one weekend, and that's with just 2 600s, what about when I get my 700 going ?
Well, I still like nitros, but I would really like a big E (or two , or maybe three ), but ZERO support in Mexico, LHSs here cater mainly to old-timers who still think big bird = nitro
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:26 AM   #32
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Unfortunately, up here they only cater to people that think cars are all the rage. Last time I was in the local place that sells nitro, the guy said "first it was planes, than everyone quit those, than heli's and everyone quit those now it's all cars!".... I just replied "oh yeah?" meanwhile I was standing there thinking to myself "oh if only you knew...."... lol I see more planes and heli's than cars here so he clearly thinks what he sells/stocks is the industry rage. I've met more plank guys than car guys too... LOL!

Agreed Jerry, a few 700's of any type would be pretty slick, hell hamster power would be fine by me if it can fly 3D.

That's the general perspective Jerry as far as NvsE costs. My experience with both is not so clean cut. I rarely have the cash to spend $50+ for a set of packs and get multiples, and wait 3+ weeks for them to arrive. By the time I've gotten say 3 sets of packs I've flown the nitro 100+ times, back to back a few times daily. Remember I'm going off my experience with the 250/450/500's in my past, which was miserable in stick time. If I didn't crash or have a failure I was flying for 5-7 minutes than waiting 3+ hours to fly another 5-7 minutes and by the time I got an extra pack my previous were lazy. I've somehow easily logged more time on my nitro than any of my other electrics, sad ain't it? LOL I likely got more tribute to pay to the size/weight of the 600 but thus far the nitro has hands down been more forgiving for the extended periods of "no flying". I had parts of a 600E but had to sell out, stupid car... lol
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:35 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jperkosk View Post
True, but not all that much more with the recent drop in battery costs, will get offset by the fuel cost really quick once you start flying.
I just managed to go through a gallon of nitro ($45) in one weekend, and that's with just 2 600s, what about when I get my 700 going ?
Any idea Jerry what would be the total realistic fuel cost for someone doing let's say around 800 (that's eighthundred yes) flights in a season ? Must be a piece of cake to calculate for your mathematical mind.
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:57 AM   #34
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Any idea Jerry what would be the total realistic fuel cost for someone doing let's say around 800 (that's eighthundred yes) flights in a season ? Must be a piece of cake to calculate for your mathematical mind.
To many variables in my opinion to get a good general figure.

You have your obvious varibles but nitro's consumption rates vary by engine size and tunning (even within the same class). Not to mention nitro prices are everywhere from $20-$65 per a gallon for 20% alone, never mind other percentages.

Based on what I've gathered last year: I averaged 20 flights out of 1 gallon of 20% at a price $45 and had roughly 14-15 minutes of fly time (until my next gallon was pissed away in tail wags). Roughly based on how often I got to fly, say 2-3 tanks every odd so day I managed to make it last three weeks. I have no estimate on time flown a year, it's pretty much I fly when I'm given a weather opportunity and time opportunity and don't have repairs... lol

Curious what it will be like this year, my last gallon cost the same but it was 30%N with less oil, requiring $25 of Castor oil on top of the $45 for the fuel. What a bugger. The gain is I have 800ML more of fuel to burn once all the oil is added to bring the contents to 18% oil.
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:01 AM   #35
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That's easy, Raf. Fuel tank on 600 is 440ccm. You typically don't run in dry, so let's say you land with 10%, you've used about 400ccm per flight. 1 gal = 3.78 l (that's US gallon, sorry guys, nobody sells nitro in UK gallon jugs ), so @ $45 per gal it comes out to $4.8 per flight, and that's for a 600 for 20% nitro. 700 and/or 30% nitro will cost more.
I'm hoping to log-in maybe 200 flights this year, on my 600s that would come down to $960. I think you can easily get enough 12S packs and build a charging station similar to the one you built to assure continuous flying (all charging at the field, none at home) for this money.

Now, that's with my expected stick time, with yours it would be 4 times more, or $3,840!
Obviously the more you fly the more electric propulsion pays off...
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:35 AM   #36
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Thanks Jerry.

Let’s see, last year around 600 flights, and this year I will fly more, as I won’t need to waste any time building new models anymore, and have better equipment to do back to back flying all day long. That will bring me around the 800 mark easily, realistically speaking. That adds up to 1400 flights in 2 years. Based on that 4,80$ cost a flight that you mention (taking the 600 numbers, not the more expensive 700 ones), that would mean I would need to spend around 6720 dollar, for fuel cost only in 2 seasons. I am speechless (which doesn’t happen a lot in my case, lol), and therefore rest my case, your honor.

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Old 03-22-2011, 04:33 AM   #37
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Nitro = pay as you go; you pay to fly, when you can afford to. Will work out more expensive in the long run.

Electric = contract; your packs are now paid for and it's up to you to use those minutes. Will probably work out cheaper in the long run, but you feel pushed to use the minutes. If you don't fly often enough, your not getting the good deal your paying for.



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Old 03-22-2011, 11:20 AM   #38
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Sorry guys, I do find this amusing, If there is one thing at all that I have learned about this hobby, it's that you open your wallet and just pour out the contents. There is no such thing as saving money, just an urban myth.

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Old 03-22-2011, 11:43 AM   #39
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Tom I agree with you 100%.

Problem here is that there is no content left in my wallet.

My wallet is probably worth a few pence. I wonder if I could trade that in for an Atom 500, with a bit of persuasion

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Old 03-22-2011, 11:49 AM   #40
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Wise man has spoken here, gentlemen
E or N will have our wallets empty in no time at all...
Where is GP when we need him most, it's probably time to call a HH meeting to try to restore some resemblance of sanity to our lives...
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