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Old 05-29-2011, 09:01 AM   #1
jbeech
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Default Pantera P6 backorders begin shipping Wednesday

I've made arrangements for inland freight and the truck arrives Tuesday morning. We'll make short work of unloading with the forklift and inspect them over the course of the day. This means we'll be ready to begin fulfilling back orders Wednesday. Please help me spread the word folks.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:47 AM   #2
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Any info on the website? I can't seem to find it...
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:09 PM   #3
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:44 PM   #4
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sounds like he's not seeing the P6 designation..... i'm 99% sure the pantera kit here

http://www.genesishobby.com/Products...1/Default.aspx

is the new P6. I say that cause he ran out of the old pantera 50 batch and if something is in stock, you can rest assured it's the new P6

I'd like to see the rundown of whats different, think there was a discussion last year about it but i never heard what all got changed and what didn't. Can we get any of the new parts in part form yet?
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:19 PM   #5
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Default Shipping!

Got a strange "new looking" box today!

thanks JB!

taking(P6) to XFC to show & tell!
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude II View Post
Got a strange "new looking" box today!

thanks JB!

taking(P6) to XFC to show & tell!

You could take some pics and make a short list of P6 vs P50 for those of us who have not yet made orders Just a subtle hint
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:35 PM   #7
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I know Gus will come through for us (-:


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Old 06-04-2011, 10:17 AM   #8
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Sorry guys, I have been real busy integrating a CNC mill and a CNC lathe we recently purchased (yes, I am likely the only dumb ass in America who thinks he can compete with the Chinese). That, and I have been busy rolling in the mud on RunRyder where a guy accused us of having shitty customer service and sadly, advised people to stay from doing business with us - http://tinyurl.com/6hhttjp - this was an especially disheartening experience because one existing Pantera customer took the opportunity to kick us while we were down by stating Panteras fly poorly and have weak side frames.

Anyway, here's the lowdown on what's new. Also, please note, some of these things I incorporated into the last production run but decided, in toto, they didn't rise to the level of being called a Pantera V2 (at that time). I'll begin with the major changes and progress to the minor updates.

1. Far and away the most extensive (and expensive) improvement was a redesign of the side frames. These are all new while retaining their well regarded durability. Moreover, they continue to be injection molded from the same tough fiber-reinforced engineering-plastic as Glock hand guns (for pretty much the same reasons), e.g. dimensional stability, toughness, impact resistance, etc. Added to it, unlike carbon fiber type side frames, which transmit engine vibrations to electronic components, ours actually damp enand absorb them. Furthermore, as you all know from experience, when compared to fiberglass, or carbon fiber side frames Pantera side frames are inherently tougher and more durable, which means your model has greater impact resistance against the knocks of daily life. And of course, if you do manage to break them, they cost a mere fraction of what carbon frames will set you back. This may raise some questions, which I will attempt to anticipate and answer.

A. Yes, you can retrofit these new design side frames to an older Pantera. However, you'll also need the new design bearing block, which is mounted above the clutch stack. Previously these bearing mounts were molded-in, e.g. incorporated directly into the side frames.

B. Yes, this means all bearing are now in removeable bearing blocks and yes, this also means at some point we may offer a CF version of the model - but please don't hold your breath, or bug me about it because, quite frankly, with the economy bumping along it's all we can do (financially) to keep our heards above water against the flood of cheap Chinese imports. Nevertheless, if it comes to pass, it will be a conversion, e.g. something you can retrofit to older models

FWIW, the impetus for separating this bearing block came (as most of our improvements do), due to customer requests. They were principally those guys involved in converting Panteras for use with either 4-stroke or gasoline engines because they wanted the versatility of using various gear ratios. This makes it easier.

C. There is a new fuel shut off incorporated into the right-hand side frame, which is similar to our existing shut off (PDR0003), but is attached with screws. I hope you find it's a nice touch.

D. The surface finish of the side frames is new (being smooth-matte instead of a pebbly surface). This, principally because it's easier to keep clean. However, it's also because, in the opinion of some, it improves their appearance . . . see, we listen!

E. A secondary boss is incorprated for reversing the two aft cyclic servos (this was introduced in the previous production run but I never made widespread mention of) it. This lets you use 135 degree swashplate setups while retaining the use of the output shaft stabilizers, which incidentally I am thinking of renaming 3D Servo Bridges.

2. The tail case is smaller and lighter while retaining the wider than competing designs output shaft bearing spacing (for greater strength and stability). Why did we change that, which was not perceived as broken?

A. In part because by making the case lighter it means less weight in the nose is required for balance. For example, we reduced the number of bolts securing the case to the tail boom (from two down to one). without sacrificing strength, or durability. How do we know? In part due to our own testing but also in part because the last 75 models of the previous production run of the Pantera 50 had the the new lightweight tail case - and no, no problems have surfaced.

B. We reduced the diameter of the three screws securing the side plate from M3 to M2.5. Again, these changes resulted in the tail case assembly being lighter.

Recall, since the Pantera 50 was first introduced, battery technology has shifted from the majority of modelers using NiCds to what we have at present where the majority are now using Lithium batteries. These are significantly lighter for the same capacity and thus, less overall weight in the tail means less nose weight is required for balance. While the new mold was expensive we felt the changes helped address this issue and on balance (pun intended) were worthwhile.

3. The standard fins in the P6 are now the once optional 3D skeletonized-type (instead of the previous design, which were a solid type with decal). Not only are they significantly stronger but they also present far less air resistance. You benefit in several areas. For example, when performing backwards flight, or quick tumbling/flipping maneuvers, because these offer less air resistance, the maneuvers are easier to start and stop with precision.

Also, because they are molded from the same fiber-reinforced engineering-plastic as the side frames, they are tough and less prone to breaking due to impact than the previous design, or versus their fiberglass or carbon fiber counterparts.

4. The canopy has been revised.

A. Moreover, because we had some complaints due to canopies being distorted upon receipt (either due to contents shifting during transport or due to heat set during shipping) we decided to make a change in how we deliver this part. Now, we do not cut out the blow molded form and leave this task to the customer because it means the canopy shape is strengthened and won't be distorted regardless of time in storage/transit.

B. We also refrained fomr removing the windshield area and ensured it can be left in place while accounting for those customers who like to mount the smoke-tinted windscreen directly over the canopy (without removing the section - hence, no ridge). As a consequence, the canopy retains far greater strength if it's uncut, which makes mounting and handling easier as well as improving the survivability during impact.

5. The decals have been revised. Furthermore, because some of us find a model helicopter hard to see when it is far away, you may be pleased we incorporated an idea I first noted on a customer's model (Dale) whereby a yellow decal section may be placed along the sides of the tail boom to help make the model rather easier to see at a distance. Granted, it's a small touch, but I find it helps me a lot in orienting against the background and thus, I hope it helps you as well.

6. The seesaw arms were occasionally a source of complaint due to what some perceived as breaking too easily during a crash. We actually made this change in the previous production run (without telling anyone). Thus, the new seesaw arm is significantly beefier and as a result, has completely eliminated customer complaints about them breaking too easily due to impact.

A. We also incorporated three adjustment holes (instead of one) for mounting the control ball. As a consequence, you may further customize your model's handling (to better suit your style). The Pantera's programable head retains - by far - more adjustments points for fine tuning than any other competing 50-class head design!

7. The tail boom clamp (where the tail boom supports and the horizontal tail fin mount) has been revised as well. Now, the point where the boom steadies mount are wider because it provides greater clearance from the tail push rod.

8. The tail rotor baldes are now molded in white instead of yellow. This is a cosmetic change due to customer requests.

9. The retail box is new as well. This reflects the new appearance of the model as well as incorporating the kind words of customers who shared their thoughts about it. Our hope is it is more attractive in the hobby shop environment.

In closing, I hope you find the new Pantera P6 to be a significant refinement of the model you've grown to love. Moreover, we endeavored mightily to respect your previous investment by making the new parts 100% compatible with the older model so you may upgrade relatively painlessly. Finally, we also hope the new style canopy is more visually pleasing and makes you even more proud to be a member of the non-sheeple society. More photos to follow.

Warmest regards,
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Old 06-04-2011, 06:09 PM   #9
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:39 PM   #10
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Thanks for the run down on the P6 JB. Don't know exactly when, but you know I'll be ordering one at some point before the end of the year!

As for the idiots with their comments about your product or service being sub par... at first I was like , but quickly changed to . I know it's no laughing matter for you when your name or product gets dragged through the mud.

As one of your customers (and certainly not your largest), thank you for your availability and willingness to discuss various issues regarding your product and the selection of other 3rd party items that you feel are best suited for use with your product. I couldn't get Mr Thunder Tiger to return my call about a tail case problem on my Raptor. I've not heard of any customers getting very far with their attempts to discuss motors or blades with Mr Hirobo or Mr Align. As for batteries, you'd think that a world leader such as Sanyo would be willing to talk with their customers about why a battery failed, but alas, it seems that they aren't really into the whole customer service/support thing either.

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Old 06-06-2011, 01:47 AM   #11
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JB, being as I am new to Pantera world, I have to say you and your company are top notch. Although I have yet to get mine in the air, I just simply can't remember a time when I placed an order on line and had the owner of the company call me the next day like you did. When my heli arrived with a couple of bad parts, you were on top of things and got replacements sent out right away. I am close to my first flight with this machine and can't wait. Just need a pitch guage. The one I have does not fit. I look forward to future business with you. I have a second that I want to make electrical. Helipainter has inspired me to do a large scale using the Pantera in the future. Hoping to take it out to the field in the next week.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:36 PM   #12
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We have pitch gages and also digital cubes in stock.
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Old 06-06-2011, 02:33 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=jbeech;2985411]Sorry guys, I have been real busy integrating a CNC mill and a CNC lathe we recently purchased (yes, I am likely the only dumb ass in America who thinks he can compete with the Chinese). That, and I have been busy rolling in the mud on RunRyder where a guy accused us of having shitty customer service and sadly, advised people to stay from doing business with us - http://tinyurl.com/6hhttjp - this was an especially disheartening experience because one existing Pantera customer took the opportunity to kick us while we were down by stating Panteras fly poorly and have weak side frames.


As you would say, know the whole story. The guy tried to buy an electric motor from you and you wanted to keep your existing stock for use as part of the e-conversions. That makes total sense to me but the potential customer didn't know that and until you hurried up and edited it, your website gave no hint that the motor was not available for the general public. He saw it on the website, sees that it states it's in stock and then you refuse to accept his order. I can see where that confuses and frustrates a guy. NOW you have it clearly stated that the motor is only available as part of the e-conversion so lets be fair you both could have handled it better and things spiraled downhill from there. As for someone claiming the Pantera flies poorly or that it has weak frames, I never saw that stated anywhere.

Questions on the P6. Does it have the new thicker tail grips? Is it still the same swashplate? Is the P6 any lighter than the previous version? If yes is it actually components or frames lighter, or is it lighter because stuff is removed like the snorkle assembly or whatever?

As for competing with the Chinese, I see no reason why you can't on limited production metal pieces. We have a shop near us that CNC mills performance automotive pieces and they are kicking butt across the country. They let their parts do the talking.



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Old 06-07-2011, 05:00 PM   #14
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I got to check out a NEW P6 at XFC last weekend.

Thick tail grips, swahplate is a bit different, frames are different in finish and also in the lightning holes and the starter block is now a separate unit.

Auto hub is a bit different also, new canopy and stickers, frame comes with a fuel pinch, and a modified tail pitch slider fork (I will be calling you about that one JB).

It is a different animal but most parts will be direct swap out either direction, there were a few other things but those are the ones I remember.

Did not think to throw the new frames on a scale.
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Old 08-02-2011, 07:29 PM   #15
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hey JB can I see a pic of this new bearing block your talking about? would we just cut the older molded one out and bolt in this removeable one or is it stricty a P6 frame item?

I have so many current pantera parts I dont see a new kit anytime soon....
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Old 08-02-2011, 07:41 PM   #16
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Garland, yeah, shaving off the existing bearing block and bolting in the one from the P6 works (this is how we actually prototyped this, in fact). Moreover, while I'll take your money for the parts (if you insist), another fact is . . . if I were you I wouldn't bother doing it because your P50 is fine like it is. Trust me on this.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:02 PM   #17
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Thanks JB good info for later
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