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Mars/Poseidon Mars and Poseidon Helicopters


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Old 07-09-2011, 08:56 PM   #1
crickr1
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Default New "Gazaur" build (re-build)

Hello everyone, I picked up my Poseidon from Husafreak. So i know all you know the bird.
I have read alot of posts from everyone and I have a few questions. Electronics location:
I was considering installing the ESC on the rear lower platform, and the Rx on the upper front. Will the Esc receive better cooling in front??My thinking was the rear platform is open so it would receive better airflow and the wiring for rx would be out of sight. I have it mocked up and wires are all concealed(nice and neat) For now (since I am a newbie with CP)I am running an OBL29/35-10h 3500 rpm w/40a esc.
Pinion: 11t? 340s on the blade? Or down to 325?
Boom was stretched 50mm
Jr770 gyro
S9257 tail
HT 65s on cyclic

I will be starting with basic hovering and sport flying, as my skills improve I will be upgrading motor.

Also, will the Mars canopy fit the poseidon? I am ordering a few canopies for custom paint jobs and wanted to know if they were interchangeable.



I am attempting a "Tripped out" paint scheme on the Gold canopy, Hopefully it comes out "SICK!"

Thanks,
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:53 AM   #2
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Hello crickr1, looks like a good size motor to start with. with the 11t you should get around 2600rpm +/-. i use a 3350 in my mars and it putt putts rather nicely. I would suggest you follow the manuals suggestions on electronics placement for best result. I read something about your lipo being a bit loooong? The max. length for the lipo should be 105mm. any longer and you risk driving the battery into the motor. The max weight (lipo) should be less than 200g (180g being optimum).

tha Gazaur 480 will accept 320mm - 360mm blades with the XL boom. the longer the blade the more stability and lift, sacrificing maneuverability.

Keep the over-all weight low -- lead balloons don't fly very well!!

http://youtu.be/kERIktQ5yh4
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:07 PM   #3
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Thanks for the info. I guess the head-speed will be sufficient for a while anyhow. Should I change pinion? I will use the large Gazaur woodies,(340) as far as the manual, it shows the rx or esc mount above batt. I guess I will put esc there since everyone else seems to put there. I just thought it might receive more cooling in the back in an open area instead of under canopy.

Can't wait for maiden,
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Old 07-10-2011, 03:20 PM   #4
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Hey there,

Congrats on your acquisition!
The manual for the birds are excellent and will guide you for the majority of things.

ELECTRONICS

The manual has a few panels concerning electronics placement, so you can follow those. For the most part, your placement will depend on the lengths of wires and weight distribution. The setups I've seen the most are the ones on my birds and on benwhite's, and then nightflyr's mars.
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=269910&page=2
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=280941
You should take a look at the picture threads here for some ideas as well.

You are good for servos and gyro. I would recommend at least at least a 55A HV ESC because it will have more than enough capacity on 3S and if you want to go to 6S it's already a done deal.If you have the 40A esc already, you should use an external BEC.

I put my ESC up front on the upper tray, the gyro in the rear upper tray and the receiver below that. I also had my BEC in the space between the upper frames in front of the eCCPM arm for the aileron. This balances nicely and keeps the phases and power wires well away from the gyro and receiver. Also, seeing as the bird would usually be in tail in, having the receiver antennas out back helps with getting an unobstructed signal, not to mention that there is clearance for the antennas in the back as well.

BLADES

In terms of blades, use the 340 woodies as they will be very light and stable. The 325 woodies will be extremely snappy and might be a bit of a handful at first. Using flybar weights might help you manage as well. Mars480 has Stubz weights, and when you are past the learning phase and are confident in your skills, you can pick up some radix 325s/350s from there as well.

BUILD TIPS
Read this short thread for some of my build tips:
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=247519

Be careful with the tail boom clamps, DO NOT twist them or they will break. Your belt doesn't have to be tight either, just enough that it does not skip teeth

The next thing I would say to look out for would be the placement of the front most bolts in the eCCPM base. The arms of the cyclic roll HS-65s will hit either the bolts, so swap them around.

Use the lower hole in the mainshaft, you get the maximum pitch range with that, and get additional clearance between the bottom of the shaft and the plastic link arm for the tail servo.

When assembling the head, don't forget the washer(prt 11, step 29) which goes in the dampener assembly and make sure that after putting on part 12 on both sides, that the feathering shaft is equidistant from its ends to the faces of the Head. When you do mount the head, do your best to make sure it is flush and true, and tighten those bolts down. If you have any vibrations, check here. Do you have metal blade grips? If not, definitely get them, as you won't have to worry about broken plastic ones with every crash.

As to whether the canopies are interchangeable, I would check for you, but I completely disassembled my birds last week to facilitate my move, but I am sure one will fit on the other, but not vice versa, just can't remember which one. Can anyone help here?

If I remember anything, I'll post it here.
Anyways, have lot's of fun with it! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

B.R.
Amit
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:44 PM   #5
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depending on how many hours the machine has on it, or when the last bearing change was done: you may want to concider doing a bearings change-out. all new bearings is the next best thing to new machine!!

Got Bearing Pack?

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Old 07-15-2011, 06:17 AM   #6
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Thanks again everyone,
I wiwll try to get some pics up this weekend.I tried a few different elect. layouts, my rx has pins on top so i put on upper batt tray and my esc on lower rear. we'll see, I do have the xl boom so I am running the 340s. Gyro is jr770 w/ hitec servos! Replaced feather and main shaft, due to vibe on spool up. I am ordering some more parts and I am going to add some CF parts, a little mix and match.landing skids , trays, and anti rotation. for now i have alot of spare blade grips but will upgrade at later date. Any tail upgrades?? Haven't seen any cnc grips for tail, or did I overlook?
well today I will have my maiden, w/final tx setup. Can't wait to see the faces on the people at the field when they see this!
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:23 AM   #7
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Oh yeah, @ Apollo I will order bearings on next order, had most of heli apart already and I thought about that during re-assembly. It will be a rainy day project with my cf parts one of these upcoming rainy days
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:06 PM   #8
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Having a hard time with tail setup. hopefully tomorrow can get some air time!
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:38 AM   #9
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tip: make sure tail holds in a hover with little to no input from gyro firstly (by adjusting mechanics). then increase gain needed to hold tail.
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Old 07-16-2011, 07:56 AM   #10
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What problems are you having?
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:17 AM   #11
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Got the tail straightened out. JR770, setup. added followed finless Bob vid. Minor adjustments. It was snapping rt quick and response was way to twitchey. Did a full re-set on rudder/servo/gyro. Much better, had rev. gyro, trav adjust and expo/d+r nice now. Need to finish fine tuning , it wants to fade/sideways left? Tried to trim ail. but then it tilts right. The fade is level, just walks left? Working on her hover at about 2 ft to make adjustments and set down a little too close to plastic curbing at park and clipped edge of blade,stripped main gear feather shaft bent. Parts will be in today so I hope I can work on more tomorrow.
I have a small park next door to my house so i use basketball court for my basic hover practice and set-up. Only problem if I go a little too far out of bounds alot of obstructions.

The landing skids are also very soft, so I ordered the silicone thread to replace old sponge. In the mean time cf skips hang up on pavement as it gets light before take off , so I put a smell length of cf tubing on skids. Cut a little longer and cut small slit in front and back to slip over skids. Attached with heat shrink and she stands nice and tall now! tail is off ground and it doesn't bind lg on takeoff. Still has enough flex in rest of gear,landed a little hard and broke a zip tie, so i did not over build the skids!

Thanks again and we will see what tomorrow brings!
More to come,,,,,,
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:00 PM   #12
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cool. sounds like good progress. ya them obsticals can stink at times. i'm used to hovering in my garage so i know about tight areas. obsticals or not, i prefer pavement verse dirt anyday. got a big chunk missing from peice of furniture from one of my stunts.

glad to hear you ironed out the tail/gyro issue. it can be quite the choir.

sounds like you were airborne already? how'd she feel?

ya them brushless motors have the torque/momentum to instantly strip the main gear when suddenly stopped. i strip the gear almost every crash. i'm a bit slow on the switch. -- usually looking for it after the crash.

If she ain't standing at attention (tail up when grounded), then houston we have a problem. solution: cut the silicone tubing just a hair longer than the hole, and place them vertically. this will make the gear nice and stiff.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:12 PM   #13
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the silicone tubing is a bit stiffer than the spong. my tail fin sits about 1" off the ground.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:29 PM   #14
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Yeah, the silicon tubing will firm your gear right up, and take out that sag, especially if you cut it slightly bigger than the slot and put it horizontally as apollo7 suggested. I do the same thing on my Mars, and on a hard landing, or crash, the tubing pops out (good luck finding it ) the gear collapses just the same and absorbs some of the energy.

Your method of covering the bottom edge of the skids in tubing is a great idea, especially because it lifts the tail rotor higher. You have no idea how many blades I've nicked, I started to use the 59mm radix to get some more clearance.

Also, I use some files(sandpaper or a dremel will work) to round the landing skid ends upwards and that helped in the fore-aft direction, but don't despair about it. As you get better, you learn to just take off straight up without lingering around on the deck.

The drift to the left is normal, it is due to the thrust from the tail rotor and is to be expected, you will naturally accommodate for it eventually.

Another thing I forgot to tell you, concerning the motor mount. Get yourself some large OD copper washers, and use those under the bolts for the motor, and for the two mounting bolts. Over time the CF around those areas crushes/wears down, and you will get vibrations. The washers allow you to tighten the bolts without damaging the plate.

It's good exercise to take off, try to hover above, and to land over the same spot, that way you can at least have a safe landing zone. I made that same mistake as you did and chipped up my woodies a while back, glad to hear I'm not the only one.

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Old 07-20-2011, 09:33 PM   #15
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Thanks guys for the encouragement, I have barely been flying for 3 months and after my fp 4ch 180 I jumped into a Gaui 200. spent alot on crash parts learning basic CP then started buying bigger birds. The Gazaur was next and 2 425 Gaui plastic kits. I am just about finished with setup on the 425. been hovering that for the past few days.Feels pretty good ,stable, but not as smooth as the GAZZ! I put the 200 down for a while to get the feel from a more stable heli. The 200 is a sweet machine but a little to agile for me at this time. I need to try and get some pics up.
my parts did not come today so the Gaz is grounded till weekend. Thanks for the tips on landing gear, will try out soon.

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Old 07-21-2011, 07:03 PM   #16
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Lookin for advice,
My parts came in today, going to re-build head tonight. What tail gear should I use? Running 3500 motor w/11 t pinion. not doing any 3d yet. need to learn alot more first. ant it to be stable and non aggressive.
thanks guys
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:21 PM   #17
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What tail blades are you running? Are they the stock Type A or Type B blades? Regardless of which gear you pick, you will have to go back through your gyro setup. Personally I prefer the one that gives the faster tail speed (can't remember teeth count). Go with that one, you get greater holding power and run less gain with it in my experience. It helps if your tail can cope with any situation, hovering or 3D regardless.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:32 PM   #18
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I am using the stock blades, the ones w/nipple. I think the 41 t is installed, I have 2 other sizes with my parts. Since the small gear is at the tail, I will go with the largest drive gear.

Thanks again,

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Old 07-22-2011, 08:22 AM   #19
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Yes, I meant the stock blades. There are actually two types of the weighted tail blades, the standard ones which come with the kit, and then a newer version which has 10% more area.

Have fun!
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:12 PM   #20
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Went to spool up after rebuild and,,,no spin! I guess the 1 way bearing is in wrong Nothing in instructions,put it aside for today and flew my Gaui425. How do i know what way to install bearing??Can't see a difference,I was wondering it felt loose in both directions. assumed it grabbed with centrifcal force. Is something else wrong? Replaced shaft, bearing, gear and spacer.WTF?? Help appreciated, feel like an idiot on this one but hey, we all learn somehow.Been looking to fly her for a week now,

Thank you,

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