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Gas Powered Thoughts Advice for Gas Helicopter Success from Carey Shurley


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Old 06-08-2013, 10:21 PM   #1
carey shurley
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Default Current Projects - Motul 800



So this is a little different from what I usually list as a project, its not a helicopter or an engine but part of the fuel. As I've posted many times these little motors are pretty tolerant of just about any oil that has the proper usage rating. Each manufacturer and modifier has their own recommendation and its a good idea to just use what they say at the ratios they specify especially if you expect any warranty coverage

Regardless there are a lot of threads about trying one type of oil or another.

For normal flying I have typically used either
  • Amsoil Saber 100 at 50:1
  • Honda HP-2 at 32:1
these are within or at the mixture guidelines specified by each oil manufacturer

A lot of people are also using Pennzoil Marine 100% synthetic oil. It is designed to run in water cooled marine motors and as such carries an TWC-W3 oil rating.

The mixture of choice for this seems to be 36:1 or about 3.5oz of oil per gallon.

From the feedback I've gotten Pennzoil is as good as any other oil for our purposes regardless of its rating. I hear about the same amount of positive and negative feedback on it. Some pilots report little to no piston deposits, others report about the same as they see with any other oil

I have however heard comments from more than one pilot about their particular exhaust systems getting clogged up while using it. Seems to be related to any of the quieter systems that have a lot of baffling.

Hatori, which is probably the quietest of the mufflers does not recommend using this oil for that reason.

I don't think there's enough data to know if its related to the thicker mixture ratio or if its something related to the water cooled rating but its the primary reason I haven't made any effort to use this oil

Something different for me

so another synthetic oil I had heard about but never personally tried is Motul. Seems to be very popular in Europe but don't see it much here.

They make several different oils rated for air cooled motors but the one that caught my attention was the 800 2T - the off road version. Another 100% synthetic based oil but this is rated API-C which is a higher temperature rating (air cooled engines). The 800 2T still contains ester. You can read about ester, its a very good chemical for lubrication.

As a result the manufacturer’s mixture specifications are either 50:1 or 66:1. I'm running at 50:1

Sort of interesting side note, the oil is red in color so when mixed with fuel it looks a lot like Cool Power 30% glow fuel. If you enjoy being asked about how come your model isn't blowing smoke out the exhaust, this will add to the fun.

High end synthetics are pretty expensive and Motul is no exception. The lower oil mix requirement does offset some of the cost as you’re using less per gallon/flight but in the end the price that you can ultimately buy the oil for (whether in low or high volumes) will affect this more than anything else.

When you break it down though, due to the thinner oil ratio for a gallon of fuel the Motul oil will represent about $1.15 of the cost (assuming you buy the oil by the gallon).

If your fuel tank is about 15oz, for each flight using Motul the oil accounts for $.13 cents of the cost. So although this stuff costs more to acquire the per flight cost is insignificant.

Summary

So how does it run? I've run a few tanks now which is certainly not enough to make any sort of technical judgement but I haven’t seen a change in power and from looking at the piston I don’t see anything unusual. It will take some time to determine if it makes any difference in build up either inside the engine or its exhaust system.

Again, this is not an endorsement or recommendation to use Motul 800 2T oil. I'm trying it now and so far it seems to not run differently than some of the other oils I"ve used. I think the main reason to use any of these pure synthetic oils would be a reduction in deposits and that’s yet to be seen.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:15 AM   #2
fastflyer20
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I ran that exact same oil last season at 32:1. I agree with minimal internal deposits. While unscientific, internal wear seemed equal to Pennzoil. It reminded me of a nitro at 32:1 with more oil than usual on the frame/boom/blades. I was never brave enough to try it at 50:1 which may have solved this.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:14 PM   #3
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I run it at 44:1 now, and where it shines is it runs clean, but has a high protection level on lean runs..Very forgiving due to the oil running ester,
Ester is the slickest known substance on earth....Only two Co's i know of use it, Belray, and Motul.. Its the only other oil I could really tell a difference besides Amsoil...
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:57 AM   #4
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I run this oil in my 125cc kart and can highly recommend it for premium lubrication and bottom end crankshaft bearing life...
We use it at 9 oz per gallon which is a lot, but it burns nicely!
Franz in NJ
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:31 PM   #5
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Carey,

This is the most used oil in Brazil with great results in aircraft engines (2T). However, there are few gassers here, then I can not say much about, but will be using it with a TRM 270tt starting August.

Taking the opportunity, thank you for help me with your posts and building threads in selecting and soon, setting, my new project (Helibug trex dfc 700).

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Old 07-26-2013, 10:29 AM   #6
carey shurley
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good luck with your project Daniel

this is good stuff. Just follow the break in instructions that come with that motor and then switch over to this oil
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:06 AM   #7
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Redline 2 stroke racing oil is also ester based. I'm on my second gallon.

Now that a fly planes and am around a bunch of people flying planes, it is the most popular. I believe DA did a video about it and how that's what they recommend because every engine they ever take apart that runs redline is always in perfect condition.

That's a massive endorsement plus everyone I know that runs it also says they have no trouble. Things run good, stay clean, and it smells good as well.

I didn't have any issues switching over. Barely tweaked the needles. I'll break everything down at the end of this season and see what it all looks like so I can know for myself.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:12 AM   #8
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looks like good stuff. even more expensive than Motul though

another oil that you can run at a 50:1 ratio or less
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:14 PM   #9
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Hi Daniel,

[QUOTE=daniel.dse;5172373
This is the most used oil in Brazil with great results in aircraft engines (2T). However, there are few gassers here, then I can not say much about, but will be using it with a TRM 270tt starting August.[/QUOTE]

I have recently switched to Motul 800 in my MinAir Spectra-G. I haven't noticed any change to power or mixture settings from the previous (mineral) oil. I am still running at 32:1, but plan to eventually run at 50:1.

So far (only a couple of gallons through), I'm happy with the new oil.
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Old 08-04-2013, 06:58 PM   #10
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Default klotz

Someone have tried Klotz oil? What ratio would be best (i am using camp fuel).
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:20 AM   #11
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Carey,
Any issues running this oil that you have come across? I have been using Redline as mentioned by another user above with great results. Motul 800 is just much more readily available locally so I'd love to know your thoughts/experiences.

Cheers
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:33 AM   #12
carey shurley
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I'm running it in all my engines (including my GT15HZ) with no issues that I've seen or heard about.

I'm not the only one on here using it, there are others as well.

Having said that I've talked to others using Red Line with no issue either. Although it sounds like you want to switch just for convenience

go ahead and switch, you'll like it
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:09 AM   #13
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Carey I have some questions,

- Are you still using 36:1 ratio?
- The oil in the attachment is "OFF ROAD" version. They also have a "LINE ROAD" oil. Did you try it as well? If yes at what ratio?
- Are you using this oil with the same ratio in your GT15?
The fallowing questions doesn't belong to here but I'll ask anyway
- Can I use this oil for break in my GT15 as well as after break in?
- GT15: What ratio for break in?

Thanks
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:54 AM   #14
carey shurley
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Quote:
Are you still using 36:1 ratio?
no I've never used THIS oil at 36:1. Only 50:1

Quote:
The oil in the attachment is "OFF ROAD" version. They also have a "LINE ROAD" oil. Did you try it as well? If yes at what ratio?
no never tried it. Supposedly this version is better suited for higher temperatures

Quote:
Are you using this oil with the same ratio in your GT15?
same oil but at the factory recommended 25:1

Quote:
Can I use this oil for break in my GT15 as well as after break in?
I just did after replacing the cylinder/piston/ring with new parts. didn't encounter any issues

Quote:
GT15: What ratio for break in?
25:1 is the only ratio I've ever run in the GT15
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