Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Multi Rotor Helicopters


Multi Rotor Helicopters Multi Rotor Helicopters Info and Support - Tandem, Quadcopters, Tricopters, Octocopters, and Hexacopters


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2014, 03:08 AM   #1
Big Island Guy
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,784
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Keaau, Hawaii
Default The LavaQuad Project Thread

A short time ago, responding to "Your dream flight" thread, started by CircleH, I commented that my dream would be to fly into Halema'uma'u crater that has an active vent and lava lake inside. Sailingeric then came up with the idea of a group project to build a Volcano Quad to send on a, very possibly, one way mission into the fire pit and hopefully get some awesome video. The first parts for the project arrived today, from halcyon32, who sent along 4 Turnigy 20A ESCs. Thanks for chipping in and I promise I'll try to reciprocate with a good effort here. I've gotten word from Sailingeric that a DJI 450 frame and FPV camera are going out this week. As I do this build, I'll post the progress here and of course, all suggestions are welcome. This is very much a group effort, with me just playing one role.

So, here we go! Pictures to come soon!
__________________
24 months (2 years!!!) cancer free ~ Cancer can kiss my grits!
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Pilot,
Team Lavaquad |
Ainokea
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Big Island Guy is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 05:12 AM   #2
setishock
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,765
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Back in Vicksburg, Ms.
Default

I offered some 2212 820kv motors with 10 inch props (Not sure of pitch. No markings on props.) when this project got started. But I've been wondering if they'd would work now considering how heavy the platform is starting to get.
You guys have any idea if they would work or do we need to look in to some other motors and props?
__________________
Contributor: TEAM LAVAQUAD

Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
setishock is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 08:46 AM   #3
Sailingeric
Registered Users
 
Posts: 783
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Default

I think the 820 kv motors will work for a heavier quad since they have more torque but will need to be 4s over 3s, not enough RPM's at 3s.
__________________
I don't always fly but when I do I fly FPV. Stay airborne my friend.

TBS Discovery with Naza w/GPS; DX9 radio
Sailingeric is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 01:20 PM   #4
CircleH
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,018
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Up and Over
Default

I thought that I was going to cut a frame from the aluminum/plastic composite...

If you are going to use a DJI 450, should I switch directions and create the heat sheilding that may be reguired? As I said someplace else... I have some rather heavy aluminum foil here ( 0.020" think or so) Cutting out easy fit parts isnt much of a problem.

Let me know..
CircleH is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 01:53 PM   #5
Sailingeric
Registered Users
 
Posts: 783
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CircleH View Post
I thought that I was going to cut a frame from the aluminum/plastic composite...

If you are going to use a DJI 450, should I switch directions and create the heat sheilding that may be reguired? As I said someplace else... I have some rather heavy aluminum foil here ( 0.020" think or so) Cutting out easy fit parts isnt much of a problem.

Let me know..
I am good either way.. Let us Big Island Guy.
__________________
I don't always fly but when I do I fly FPV. Stay airborne my friend.

TBS Discovery with Naza w/GPS; DX9 radio
Sailingeric is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 02:16 PM   #6
Big Island Guy
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,784
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Keaau, Hawaii
Default

I'm thinking let's go with the 450 frame, with heat shielding crafted by CircleH, if that's okay by you guys. And definitely a 4S battery. Not only is it a matter of having enough revs to turn the props fast enough, but any 4S with a given Ah capacity holds more Watt hours of energy than a 3S of the same Ah capacity. Something to remember is that when we get above the lake, the hot air above it will be thinner (density altitude) due to its being so hot. That and the associated turbulence will need a really good power reserve.
__________________
24 months (2 years!!!) cancer free ~ Cancer can kiss my grits!
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Pilot,
Team Lavaquad |
Ainokea
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Big Island Guy is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 02:20 PM   #7
Big Island Guy
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,784
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Keaau, Hawaii
Default

PTcaflyer has generously offered to send along a KK board for the FC. We're not sure at this point whether it'll be the 5.5 or 2.1, but either way, thanks to PTcaflyer!
__________________
24 months (2 years!!!) cancer free ~ Cancer can kiss my grits!
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Pilot,
Team Lavaquad |
Ainokea
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Big Island Guy is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 02:33 PM   #8
CircleH
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,018
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Up and Over
Default

I hear that lipos like to work hot!
this should be a cake walk... LoL!!
CircleH is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 02:36 PM   #9
setishock
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,765
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Back in Vicksburg, Ms.
Default

If the boom extended past the prop arc you could put a membrane like a flying squirrel between the booms on the plate end. The thermal updraft would help to keep it aloft. Make steering a bear though unless they folded up somehow. But it would reduce the load on the motors when over the lake.
__________________
Contributor: TEAM LAVAQUAD

Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
setishock is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 03:08 PM   #10
Mumeral
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Spain
Default

I was just thinking we should look at some angled boom mounts so the booms can be angled upward away from the heat, might buy us some time with the motors
Mumeral is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 03:25 PM   #11
CircleH
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,018
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Up and Over
Default

hot air = less density. props become even more iniffecient than they already are.. so

reasoning says to me.. if the machine is "propped"for normal air , it wil not fly as well in hot air.. Therefor ..... if in cooler air the appropriate pitch is say... a 10 / 38 wouldn't an 11/45 be a better choice for the destination? This may not be feasible as it may draw too much current initially...but once the air is thinner and hotter, things should "even out"

just another of the many many BF's i have over the course of a day.
CircleH is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 06:19 PM   #12
setishock
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,765
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Back in Vicksburg, Ms.
Default

Not a lot of clearance. That's 10 inch props on a F450 frame.

__________________
Contributor: TEAM LAVAQUAD

Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
setishock is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 06:33 PM   #13
Tesla
Registered Users
 
Posts: 418
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: US, IL, Joliet
Default

So keeping circles theory in mind wouldn't it just be better to send a plank? Probably a lot cheaper too. I do realize I'm in a multirotor/heli forum but still.
__________________
T-Rex 700E Pro DFC: iKon, Aurora 9
T-Rex 550: 3GX, Aurora 9
TBS Disco: Naza, FPV, DragonLink
Tesla is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 06:40 PM   #14
setishock
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,765
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Back in Vicksburg, Ms.
Default

Well if you're going in that direction a balsa covered foam glider would work. It could loiter for as long as the batteries hold up.
Problem with that is it can't sit in one spot. By it's very nature it has to keep moving to produce lift over the wings. And it's fuselage is narrow so placing the equipment and keeping the balance would be tricky.
__________________
Contributor: TEAM LAVAQUAD

Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
setishock is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 06:49 PM   #15
Sailingeric
Registered Users
 
Posts: 783
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by setishock View Post
Not a lot of clearance. That's 10 inch props on a F450 frame.

My F450 flew with the DJI 1038 props. My FVP camera would get just a little bit of prop in the corners, which i found helpful for trying to see if I could fit through a tight spot. Here is a pic to get an idea of the set up http://www.helifreak.com/showthread....ighlight=depot. But given the heat, some carbon fiber props would probably hold up better
__________________
I don't always fly but when I do I fly FPV. Stay airborne my friend.

TBS Discovery with Naza w/GPS; DX9 radio
Sailingeric is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 06:51 PM   #16
Big Island Guy
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,784
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Keaau, Hawaii
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
So keeping circles theory in mind wouldn't it just be better to send a plank? Probably a lot cheaper too. I do realize I'm in a multirotor/heli forum but still.
Bite your tongue! Forty lashes with a wet noodle for you, heretic! Naw, seriously, the biggest problem is that while I'm licensed to fly a real airplane and can fly even RC CP helis (supposedly much harder), the only time I tried flying an RC plane, I crashed it within seconds. Someone else will have to fly that mission.
__________________
24 months (2 years!!!) cancer free ~ Cancer can kiss my grits!
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Pilot,
Team Lavaquad |
Ainokea
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Big Island Guy is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 11:16 PM   #17
SAMUELPINONFLORES
Registered Users
 
Posts: 613
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: México
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CircleH View Post
hot air = less density. props become even more iniffecient than they already are.. so

reasoning says to me.. if the machine is "propped"for normal air , it wil not fly as well in hot air.. Therefor ..... if in cooler air the appropriate pitch is say... a 10 / 38 wouldn't an 11/45 be a better choice for the destination? This may not be feasible as it may draw too much current initially...but once the air is thinner and hotter, things should "even out"

just another of the many many BF's i have over the course of a day.
That is true a don't forget that hot air goes up un this case the quad go become moro floaty and as I suppose it going to keep longer time in the air with less drop if power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
__________________
FUSION 50 /CGY750
PROTOS 500 /SKOOKUM SK540BELT CP V2,CYPHER 3D
BIG NAZA QUADCOPTER
FLIP FPV
SAMUELPINONFLORES is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 11:48 PM   #18
CircleH
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,018
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Up and Over
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by setishock View Post
Not a lot of clearance. That's 10 inch props on a F450 frame.
You can get 11 inch props on a 450! Just cut an inch off each end if you have to! :
CircleH is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 03:24 AM   #19
setishock
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,765
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Back in Vicksburg, Ms.
Default

Wouldn't it prudent then if using 11 inch props to switch to a different motor? I have a feeling DJI reds or E300 motors would heat up a lot slinging that big a prop around.
__________________
Contributor: TEAM LAVAQUAD

Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
setishock is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 05:19 AM   #20
Big Island Guy
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 2,784
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Keaau, Hawaii
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by setishock View Post
Wouldn't it prudent then if using 11 inch props to switch to a different motor? I have a feeling DJI reds or E300 motors would heat up a lot slinging that big a prop around.
I think CircleH is just pulling our legs - 11"- 1" at each end = 9" props.
__________________
24 months (2 years!!!) cancer free ~ Cancer can kiss my grits!
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Pilot,
Team Lavaquad |
Ainokea
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Big Island Guy is online now        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Multi Rotor Helicopters


Multi Rotor Helicopters Multi Rotor Helicopters Info and Support - Tandem, Quadcopters, Tricopters, Octocopters, and Hexacopters

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com