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Old 04-24-2013, 06:18 PM   #1
Rahulgaba
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Default TRACX head horzontal Play

Hey all

I just saw that the head has a less than 1mm horzontal play on one blade grip. The other one is very solid.

I push the feathering shaft towards the solid one, and I can feel that it has play but less than what the one (on the right lets say) had..

Now is this normal? Do I need another shim. I have two of those little thin shims on each side.. Do I need to increase shimming on one side? or decrease? Let me know.

there is definitely some horizontal play.. and the dampeners are new.

Let me know please

and if you know where to find more of those thin stupid shims if thats what I need

I dont want one side to be 607mm on my 606blades and other side be 606


Gaba
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:44 PM   #2
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Gaba,

Are these the stock dampers? If so, you probably need another shim. The spindle should be centered in the head, so the play should be equal on both sides (shim both sides if necessary).

I use KBDD Dampers (either the Lime Greens or the slightly less firm Royal Blues, with one KBDD Delrin spacer on each side. These things seem to last forever in service.

Make sure you grease either damper (on the stock you coat the O-Rings, on the KBDD's you coat the entire surface of the Damper, inside and out).

With either damper, the spindle must be centered.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:31 PM   #3
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Default TRACX head horzontal Play

Hey brother

Tried to PM you but tour inbox was full

These are Kbdd dampeners like green with the extra Kbdd plastic washer on both sides added to the stock aluminum one

I was mode talking inside the head .. Main grips ..

Between the thrust bearing and the radial bearing ... There are little shin shims right?

Those.... How many you got?
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:53 PM   #4
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Let me look-either for the diagram or I can take a head apart, tomorrow. I don't trust my memory on this one. As I recall there is a very thin shim washer between the thrust bearing and the radial bearing.

Sorry about the PM Inbox getting full-it is very difficult to keep up with it these days.

I know there should be one of the black, delrin KBDD Washers, then the damper, then a Compass/TracX washer, then the grip.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:04 PM   #5
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I just pulled this from the Prostar Website:

http://ffevj.gfdzo.servertrust.com/v...BL50Manual.pdf

That shows the correct washers and their placement.

One washer: 82-821003 goes between the outboard radial bearing and the thrust bearings (on each side).

The 02-110 washer/spacer (aluminum, as I recall) goes between the damper and the inner radial bearing.


Other parts of the diagram, that are not used with the KBDD Dampers:

The 97-0920' shown in the diagram are O-Rings, used with the 02-0109 delirin part (sleeve with grooves to retain the O-Rings) for the stock damping system.

Let me know if that helps, or if you require anything else, sir.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:30 PM   #6
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Default TRACX head horzontal Play

That does help.
Thanks !!

That washer is .3 mm wide

I got two on each side. I guess ill rebuild this with one on each side and see what it does...? Lol

Problem with buying used lol

Too many washers will cause a play too? Or not?

Or else ill be ordering more of those washers

Sucks cause I just made a huge order with them and its shipped :/ lol
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:19 AM   #7
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Usually, when you install the KBDD Dampers and Spacers, the head feels a bit tight, so I am not sure why there is play in the one you have, sir.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:59 AM   #8
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Here is the flight :


cyclic response was much slower. Rail 606's should not have made so much of a differnce.

I did rebuild the head by manual as It was built by Compass head 7hv specs more than anything. I rebuilt it by TRACX manual Ah clem provided.

New KBDD lime green dampeners.. and this spacer:
http://www.prostarhobby.com/product-p/4105.htm

this was thicker than what I had on.. totally different. I hope I used the right one. Please confirm.

Like I was told, that the head will be TIGHT.. yes it was.. and it flew, but like I said cyclic response was SLOOOW... I am guessing that is because of the head binding.

Will it go away? I hoping so .. please let me know.

It was not at all falling on its own weight if left.. i needed to use some force to make the head grips move..

Before I was flying a wrong built head, and yes it had horizontal play but it was smooth ! LOL

Now this one is all new beaings and all.. but is quite tight. compared to heads I have flow,,

Is this normal...
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:20 AM   #9
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can you turn the spindle in the dampers? many do not use lube or use the wrong lube. The wrong stuff will make your dampers stick to your spindle like a vice. Make sure to lube with silicone grease. I use o-ring lube from Ace hardware.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:07 AM   #10
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Different blades will affect the cyclic speed. I have been flying several different kinds recently, and some speed things up, while some slow things down.

I run Compass 615's on all of my 600's, all of which have very rapid cyclic response.

Which FBL unit are you running, sir?
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:15 AM   #11
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Jason:

I used thin bearing oil on them. No lube. I have the black thrust bearing lube (thunder tigre) or triflo red lying around.. any of them work ? but even if that happens, that isnt gonna affect cyclic is it ?

or is it?


Ah Clem:

I flew on this head (smooth but wrong built) Maverick 600 G5 pros.. and they were quite a bit faster .. may be it was mechanical setup .. but .. after my latest fun fly twin crashes.. I went to Synergy rail 606.. I am flying 7200BX on this birdie right now
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:26 AM   #12
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Gaba,

The silicon lube that Jason recommended is exactly what you should use on the dampers. Silicon grease is what I have been using for years (decades, actually). It maintains its lubrication qualities over time, and will not attack the plastic or rubber compounds used in dampers.

Glad you got the cyclic sped up, sir.

Are you familiar with adjusting Pot 2 on the AR7200BX and Parameter G?

Those can help speed the cyclic up and change the control feel quite a bit. They will not overcome an extremely heave set of blades, but do help quite a bit.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulgaba View Post
Jason:

I used thin bearing oil on them. No lube. I have the black thrust bearing lube (thunder tigre) or triflo red lying around.. any of them work ? but even if that happens, that isnt gonna affect cyclic is it ?

or is it?


Ah Clem:

I flew on this head (smooth but wrong built) Maverick 600 G5 pros.. and they were quite a bit faster .. may be it was mechanical setup .. but .. after my latest fun fly twin crashes.. I went to Synergy rail 606.. I am flying 7200BX on this birdie right now
Bearing oil will will cause your dampers to swell and make it imposible for the spindle to center itself.

Are you saying the cyclic was faster with the same setup? Did you have the 7200bx on you heli before? Or is this setup with rails and 7200bx slower?
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:04 PM   #14
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Ah clem.. the cyclic got slower..

Jason

after the rebuild of the head the cyclic has been much slower!
no change done to 7200bx.. gyro hasnt been touched.
rails arent that heavy and are actually flying very well on other birds. Just that I am thinking the mechanical binding is causing the slow cyclic response.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:34 PM   #15
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Pot 2 on the BeastX adjusts the control loop.

The overall rate of flip and roll is set with the end point control (or dual rates) in the radio.

Take the ship up and flip it and roll it. If it is too slow, increase the endpoints to get the rate of flip/roll you desire at full stick deflection.

Pot 2 is the control loop. Lift the machine into a hover and rock it left and right, then back and forth. Increase it a bit at a time, until there is no lag between your stick commands and the movement of the helicopter. If it overshoots and bounces back, Pot 2 is too high.

Now you should have the cyclic speed you desire, and a better "feel" between your stick movement and the helicopter (it will feel more "connected," if that makes sense.

Parameter G (not setup step G) on the BeastX is somewhat like V-Bar's "Paddle Sim." You can try increasing this a bit to improve the agility even further.

I have Compass/TracX heads on my Atom, 6HV, 7HV, Odin II, Trex 550E, Trex 600E, Chaos 600E, Caliber 700, and one other I cannot remember right now. Cyclic agility is not an issue with the head.

Every time you change the type of blades you are using, you need to re-tune the FBL unit to get maximum performance. Some blades will be faster than others. Some will be slower and (usually) more stable.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:50 PM   #16
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thats is awesome info Ah Clem! Really apprecaite it!

I would however not touch that stuff. UNTIL.. I get the head pretty smooth so I know that FBL is not being degraded by the mechanical Bind

I will go to ace and pick up that grease. Then.. just cause . I want to run this by y'all..

Head yoke-->KBDD space (from that link) --> green dampener--->tracx aluminum washer--> radial bearing-->main grip--> thrust bearing--> one shim 0.3mm-->radial bearing--> screw with the washer.

thats it right ? I am stupid sometimes.. so wanna confirm..

Now that un knowingly I probably made the KBDD dampeners to swell by dousing them with bearing oil.. you think I should replace them with new ones? NO way to shrink them back

I dont mind.. but before I chunk something out, I like get advice


Ooooh .. one more thing..... thrust bearing.. bigger ID in or out ?

I really truely appreciate your responses!
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:09 PM   #17
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"Head yoke-->KBDD space (from that link) --> green dampener--->tracx aluminum washer--> radial bearing-->main grip--> thrust bearing--> one shim 0.3mm-->radial bearing--> screw with the washer."

That looks correct, to me.

"Now that un knowingly I probably made the KBDD dampeners to swell by dousing them with bearing oil.. you think I should replace them with new ones? NO way to shrink them back"

If they have swollen, I suspect they are done. You will have to take them out and check them to see if they are damaged.

"Ooooh .. one more thing..... thrust bearing.. bigger ID in or out ?"

As I recall, there are differences in both the I.D. and O.D. of the thrust bearing races. The ones with the larger I.D. hole, go closest to the head block. The ones with the small I.D. hole, go towards the blade.

The concave sides of each race, of course, face the bearing cage/balls. The bearing cage should be oriented so that the open side faces towards the main rotor hub, so that it will retain grease better.

Let me know what else you need, sir!
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:16 PM   #18
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thanks for your diligent replies. I will report back after a re rebuild!

Goign to see if LHS has the Lime green dampeners now
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:49 PM   #19
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Default TRACX head horzontal Play

One more question: what makes a dead dampner

Like not the one that I destroyed ... But the one I was flying before... They are like green they are Kbdd

They are not dead by me yet lol

So what do I check to tell if a dampener is dead
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:55 PM   #20
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If they are torn or compressed so that they are no longer symmetrical, they are done.

If they are spongy (i.e. too soft) they are done. Likewise if they swell up as Jason mentioned.

Bad dampers can cause vibration, tracking error, soft or erratic feel abound center, or general sponginess in control feel.

If coated with silicone grease, the KBDD's should easily last for several hundred flights.
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