KDS 600E Innova FBL

[JeremyT]

Hi,

Almost finished building, but ran into something strange.
Lets say that everything is mechanically setup properly and that when entering the PPC unit's Bar Monitor the swashplate stays perfectly level when pitching up/down from 0% to 100%.
But when leaving the Bar Monitor menu, it appears to be the aileron servo having less travel than the pitch servo, causing the swash plate to tilt a little while pitching up/down.

I have been trying to correct it with the Servo Settings of the EBAR PPC unit, changing the neutral points, no success.
Have tried both the subtrims and travel adjustment in my transmitter, also to no avail.

And when I enter the Bar Monitor menu of the connected PPC again, all is good.
What, why, how?? How can I get to have the d*mn servo's work like they do that way in actual flight?

The golden tip will be incredibly much appreciated!

[bwoollia]

Originally Posted by JeremyT

Hi,

Almost finished building, but ran into something strange.
Lets say that everything is mechanically setup properly and that when entering the PPC unit's Bar Monitor the swashplate stays perfectly level when pitching up/down from 0% to 100%.
But when leaving the Bar Monitor menu, it appears to be the aileron servo having less travel than the pitch servo, causing the swash plate to tilt a little while pitching up/down.

I have been trying to correct it with the Servo Settings of the EBAR PPC unit, changing the neutral points, no success.
Have tried both the subtrims and travel adjustment in my transmitter, also to no avail.

And when I enter the Bar Monitor menu of the connected PPC again, all is good.
What, why, how?? How can I get to have the d*mn servo's work like they do that way in actual flight?

The golden tip will be incredibly much appreciated!

By "pitching" you mean collective pitch, right? This may not be an issue. Since it is kept level, it doesn't need to make any corrections, once in the air it should keep itself straight.

[JeremyT]

Hey there,

Well, finished the build and setup and been brave enough to test the impressive thing for its very first hover capabilities in my living room.
And yay, it comes off the ground and stays in nice hover!
Can't wait to tweak it all further and to take her to the big field for some serious testing. The only problem being the Dutch weather over here (read: rain, wind, cold and coming snow).

I too have the slight tail wag that you (bwoollia) have mentioned in this thread.
I have been trying all kinds of gyro gain settings in my transmitter, from low to high, different head speeds, it doesn't seem to change things at all.
Just like you say, it's acceptable (for now) since it's a very very slight and slow tail wag, at least not really affecting the hover performance, as that is all I have been testing now.

However, I am ofcourse very curious to know if you've been solving the issue in the meantime.

I've ran into some potential solutions, but I've yet to try them. And maybe you're already saying that it's nonsense:

- Lube the belt with silicone spray. People have been reporting this greatly reduces unexplainable tail wags as soon as the spray has been spread.

- The default frequency of 333 Hz for the KDS N690 tail servo (set up via the PPC unit) isn't correct. Should be some other frequency, don't know which one.

BTW, what is your bar gain value under Flight Mode?

[bwoollia]

I reduced the bar gain to 75 which seemed to help with the tail wag - I know that they shouldn't be related, but perhaps some cyclic wag that I couldn't see was translating into the tail. This was visible during an inverted hover. I reduced my tail gain to 65 which resulted in some very minor tail kick during pitch pumps, but held well. I also moved the servo horn ball in one hole. You might try 300Mhz

I also "upgraded" my tail servo to this:http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14831. I haven't flown it very much, but it seems to be an improvement.

The spray lube might work, who knows. Do you know what kind of spray to use? I suppose some digging on this forum would tell us what to use.

You didn't really hover your 600 sized helicopter in your living room, did you? That must have been noisy.

[JeremyT]

I have lubed the belt with silicone spray and the result is good.
No more tail wag, but also a slight kick when rapidly increasing pitch. My tail gain is at 70% now, I will try a higher one later.
Also set the bar gain to 75%. I do notice a slight overall wobble when moving the cyclic stick. Should I then lower the bar gain or is it a low headspeed thing? I haven't been trying anything higher than my transmitter's 70% throttle curve, since I've been only trying in my living room.

And yes, it's a risk and very noisy, but yes, in my living room. I've been making a short sort of teaser video of it for the Dutch Heli-Review.nl website. Will be making a video special for the Dutch of the kit soon.
The short living room video:

YouTube

YouTube

As for the silicone spray at the belt: remember the trail dragging issue when spinning the rotor head by hand we've been discussing earlier? That's all gone now. The spray makes the belt so much more flexible/supple, I guess to a point where it should be.
I suspect that the belt's increased drag that you have at some points of the belt's turn was causing the tail wags.

You can use any 'true' silicone spray for it. Spray it on the in- and outside of the belt. You can best reach it at the tail assembly.
Spray, spin the blades, spray, spin the blades, until it has been spread properly. Then fly, so that it spreads even better. I think it's best to repeat it after 15-20 flights or so.
Just stay away from WD-40. That is also a lube, but greasy. And that is known to eat into rubber over time.

[bwoollia]

Jeremy, I like you man but you're crazy.

I'll have to try the silicone lube. My helicopter has started a long voyage from the west to east coast of Canada, I'll be following it shortly.

[Adventurer]

Did you manage to find specs for that motor. The little info sheet that came with mine said nothing about poles or timing, which makes it a bit difficult to set-up a governor.

[JeremyT]

These are all the specs that KDS is sharing for the stock motor:

BL5052-500KV

Stator Diameter-40mm
Stator Thickness-25mm
No. of Stator Arms-12
Magnet Poles-8
Motor KV500kv RPM
Max Continuous Current-75Amps
Max Continuous Power-3330 watts
Weight-307 Grams
Shaft Diameter-5.98mm
Body Length-51.5mm
Overall Shaft Length-78.5mm
Li-po 12S
Outside Diamete-49mm

[Adventurer]

Cool - Thanks.

[bwoollia]

Please let us know how the governor works out. What size pinion are you planning to use?

[JeremyT]

Hey guys,

I'm looking into having some nice custom canopy for the KDS Innova 600 Flybarless. The thing is that none of the canopy creators have the exact "KDS Innova 600" canopy mold in their lists.
Do you perhaps know what mold would actually fit the Innova 600? Perhaps the Mikado Logo 600 (V2)?

Thanks!

[Ghostflyer1]

Dude your insane for flying that thing in your living room. That thing can tear you up your furniture your walls ......

[rotaryguy]

Manual download? Also, what are the boom diameters across the 3 versions 550,600, 700? all the same? US retailers?

[newblueshoe]

Do you guys know of any other head options for the 600? I heard they were going to do a lowered head for fbl but i have yet to see it. Will the compass or align work with this model? Thats the only thing keeping me from purchasing right now.

[martingru]

Hi guys ,what is diameter tail boom of KDS 600?
Tnx!
Br Martin

[martingru]

I found that diammeter of KDS 600 and KDS 700 boom is 25mm
but now i woudlike to know what size(XL) is belt for KDS 700.
Comone guys ,i'm sure that someone is flying 600&700 sizes of KDS already


Br Martin

EDIT: Im searching manual for Innova 600/700 can smeone provide me such-its impossible to find anything exacl about that bird

Thanx in advance!

[martingru]

Still searching

Anybody?