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Old 01-21-2012, 05:05 PM   #1
helicraze
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Default YGE VS JIVE

Can someone please give me comparison on YGE internal gov to jive??? See i find the jive gov to work the best, i tried helijive and it smooths it but even with settings high it lacks in other areas.

KSA mode and reduction of gains i tried and it was really noticeable.

I wonder how does the YGE gov perform? Does the heli feel really powerfull like the jive or more boring?

Thanks
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:30 PM   #2
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+1 I would also love to know how the internal gov on the YGE compares against Jive mode 4 or 11

Rob
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:18 PM   #3
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Im going to test in the next day or so.

So far testing it looks like soft start is not soft regardless of setting
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
Im going to test in the next day or so.

So far testing it looks like soft start is not soft regardless of setting
Craze can you post your settings?

The ones that effect start are startup power, either Auto or 2% as a start.
Heli Slow or Middle is the other that affects start up.

VBar Gov or regular Gov?
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:16 PM   #5
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Regular gov, tried all settings and its not the best.

I think it will be ok, its just the first instant, then it spools slow.

I think it should work well, hope to test in the next few days
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:22 PM   #6
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I forgot, timing and PMW mess with motor start as well.

I think with your 4525,4535 Scorp's you are going to want PWM 8-9, timing auto to start, mess with it after you get PWM right.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:54 PM   #7
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I left pwm at 8, and 18 timing.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
Regular gov, tried all settings and its not the best.

I think it will be ok, its just the first instant, then it spools slow.

I think it should work well, hope to test in the next few days
The jive softstart might be a little smoother depending on the motor (more linear)...but performance wise they should feel very close to the same. The YGE soft-start when configured properly is very good...The softstart duration is a little shorter though on the YGE. One major issue on the YGE that i have been pushing to everyone is that you need to manually check your lower and upper endpoints like you do on the JIVE....even after you program it. Basically after your done programming it, Use the Jive's endpoint instructions to set low endpoint manually. Usually your lower endpoint will be around 94 (if you programming it correctly) and your high 96/98. If you care about performance, manually check your high endpoint as well! This is very easy to do with blades off etc. . If you leave your low endpoint at 100 and do not manually adjust it, your softstart will not be smooth. IF you leave your high endpoint at 100 and dont manually check it you might loose some top end punch. The other VERY important thing is never use anything but a Flat throttle curve. Use throttle hold directly into a flat curve. The YGE's throttle response is very fast even in heli mode...if you try to spool up into a non flat throttle curve you will have issues...even if you dont touch the stick. Dont ever use a ramp in HV unless you hate main gear for some reason!

On the Jive you need to run a higher tail gain then on the YGE (futaba setup)
This is because of the minor difference in how the jive and yge use gains. (dont touch btw) Jive uses a lower igain...relying more on tail gain. If you are converting from jive to YGE dont be surprised that your tail is gain is off even if the Headspeed matches.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:06 AM   #9
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How can the low thr value value affect the soft start?? If it goes from 0 to eg 70% what difference would it make??

Anyway i will test tommorow. If i dont like it i will put the jive back in and then get a kosmik once they are out
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
How can the low thr value value affect the soft start?? If it goes from 0 to eg 70% what difference would it make??

Anyway i will test tommorow. If i dont like it i will put the jive back in and then get a kosmik once they are out
Actually i didn't realize this was the issue with the soft start untill i started playing w/ the vbar gov. Mr. Mel shows in his videos when calibrating any esc for the vbar gov that if the lower endpoint isn't manually calibrated then you will not have an ideal soft-start. I went back and looked at all my YGE's and sure enough there was 7point gap from where the ESC armed and what i had set. YGE actually mentions in there instructions that after calibrating throttle endpoints that the low endpoint should be lowered by a couple points and checked. Basically even though we program with Endpoints at 100/100 , the ESC actually ARMs itself at 92. Even though the ESC arms at this point it doesnt ensure the motor will stop at this point hence we are taught to add a buffer of 1 or 2 points to ensure the motor fully stops when at zero throttle after the motor has started. YGE sets a safe enough buffer to ensure that the motor will stop regardless the setup when throttle is at zero. Now on the Jive...we are instructed to do this manual calibration of the throttle hence ensuring there is no large jump when motor starts. You can also program the jive the programming card but you still would need to check the low point manually to ensure smooth startup. BTW you should not calibrate your endpoints using throttle hold..instead use a linear throttle curve of 0 - 50 -100 leaving stick at low point. (check your servo output screen that -100 or 100 is being output . same with high endpoint!

I had been setting the startup power manually to help smooth out my softstarts but after discovering this, i was able to set my Startup power back to Auto on All my helis and softstart felt perfect again. Another to note is throttle calibration and startup varies from TX to TX. For instance before getting the 8FG i had a Hitec A9 TX and still had the same YGE's setup with the same motors but on Hitec, the softstart felt perfect never causing me an issue. This is most likely due to the fact that when programming the A9 the YGE armed higher than it does on the 8FG.

Here is the video that I am referring to from Mr. Mel ( A person you trust)
Even though he is showing this on the vbar, the same principle applies when using it normally.

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Old 01-25-2012, 12:41 PM   #11
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FYI. That Video is dated info and is no longer correct as the process for setting Vbar>Setup>Gov II, Motor Stop is changed in the VBar Gov 5.2 Video.

Watch the 5.2 Video and my instructions reflect the proper way to get motor stop.

But Anyway YES this low throttle(motor stop) in Vbar makes all the difference in motor spool up. To Joes point it makes a diff in Normal Gov Mode(did not know that).
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic3D View Post
FYI. That Video is dated info and is no longer correct as the process for setting Vbar>Setup>Gov II, Motor Stop is changed in the VBar Gov 5.2 Video.

Watch the 5.2 Video and my instructions reflect the proper way to get motor stop.

But Anyway YES this low throttle(motor stop) in Vbar makes all the difference in motor spool up. To Joes point it makes a diff in Normal Gov Mode(did not know that).
I forgot to mention that the video is dated and shouldn't be used the only reason i use it is because it shows what happens when your low endpoint is too high...even on a flybar heli where you plugged into the RX directly.

I know the YGE seems like it is complicated or more difficult to use compared to a jive or takes hours to setup..but its not. It takes me 10x longer to write how to setup endpoints then it does for me setup a brand new YGE for any heli using internal or external gov. In reality you could simplify the process in a single paragraph and that would suit 95% of the people but to get the best out of your motor/heli and overall setup it takes a little more reading.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:21 PM   #13
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Default Review YGE 320A vs jive 120HV

I tested my yge 320A today.

A few notes:

YGE, the first split second it spools is more abrupt than jive, but affter that it spool very smooth, smoother than jive

YGE gov store mode works very well with scorp, PWM 8 and timing 18. The gov feels really good, dropped tail gain 10 points in all flight modes to stop wag.

YGE gov pulls like frieght train in FFF, feels a little smoother in some areas compared to jive

YGE is easily damaged and any metal can short it out as its only covered with heatshrink and ends open

YGE temps only warm even when high ambient

Jive spools very nicely

Jive gov mode works really well, very aggressive, tail gain 10 points higher compared to YGE

Jive gov is aggressive in tic tocs, tail affected

Jive is NOT easily damaged and well protected

Jive gets fairly warm in high ambient temps, but has 3 levels of protection for cutout


All in all, the YGE is a good esc, couple of little quirks about it. Not sure how the 160A compares (the jive 120 can do 240A cont), its a shame there is no BEC on it
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Old 01-30-2012, 04:59 PM   #14
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So overall.. in the future which esc would you choose?

Rob
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Old 01-30-2012, 05:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heli21 View Post
So overall.. in the future which esc would you choose?

Rob
I hope Craze Chimes in here.
I have both a HeliJive and YGE 160HV.
I choose the HeliJive when the motor is compatible with Mode 8, Pyro, or in my case Xera 4030 where I want a BEC and a very simple light solution. So this is for Goblin.

For 700E with Xera 4035 with VBar Gov I got the YGE160 as I had bought a HeliJive before V11 was released and sent it back. So bought a YGE160 and happy with that.

So my choice would be for most of the motors out there YGE, even the 4525/4530 Power Houses especially.

In 2 months it might be the Kosmic, will see if it has the Heli Features and the initial reports before I jump again...
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
I tested my yge 320A today.

A few notes:

YGE, the first split second it spools is more abrupt than jive, but affter that it spool very smooth, smoother than jive

YGE gov store mode works very well with scorp, PWM 8 and timing 18. The gov feels really good, dropped tail gain 10 points in all flight modes to stop wag.

YGE gov pulls like frieght train in FFF, feels a little smoother in some areas compared to jive

YGE is easily damaged and any metal can short it out as its only covered with heatshrink and ends open

YGE temps only warm even when high ambient

Jive spools very nicely

Jive gov mode works really well, very aggressive, tail gain 10 points higher compared to YGE

Jive gov is aggressive in tic tocs, tail affected

Jive is NOT easily damaged and well protected

Jive gets fairly warm in high ambient temps, but has 3 levels of protection for cutout


All in all, the YGE is a good esc, couple of little quirks about it. Not sure how the 160A compares (the jive 120 can do 240A cont), its a shame there is no BEC on it
If you like the YGE so far....i promise you...it will and can get better. I am constantly learning new ways to tune it...making it better and better. One big discovery i made just this weekend should actually help you out with the soft start issue. PM me when you get a chance and I'll explain. I'll being doing a post about it soon but it will take some time and more testing.
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:08 AM   #17
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Hi guys. The soft start its only the first .5 sec if that of the soft start that is a little quick, it does not fold the blades but its just not as soft as the jive, but after that .5sec it spools very slowly and nicely (better than jive).

I was testing inside and flipped the thr quickly and was a little concerned, but once out at the field its not an issue.
Changing endpoints did not change anything

If the YGE could be more protected and with BEC it would be ultimate IMHO!

Both are good esc, but for LE motors if you dont want an issue with a shutdown on a hot day then the 160 or 320A YGE is the way.

I might like the kosmic better, time will tell, ill let someone else try that.

In FFF the YGE seems to have more steam.
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:40 AM   #18
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This is all great info. I took a short break from helis (right after v4.0 Vbar came out), and now I'm looking to build a Synergy E7 to add to my Logo 600se/Jive 80 (which I love). I was under the impression that the Vbar gov is as good as the Jive's. So other than soft starts and possible slight power differences, is there a difference between the lower end esc's ie Castle, etc and the Jive/Yge all using the Vbar gov? Or is using the esc gov the way to go? I'm looking for a very smooth consistant feel just like the Jive and I'm a set it and forget it pilot. I don't mind fiddling with settings at first, but then I usually never touch them after.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeg1999 View Post
This is all great info. I took a short break from helis (right after v4.0 Vbar came out), and now I'm looking to build a Synergy E7 to add to my Logo 600se/Jive 80 (which I love). I was under the impression that the Vbar gov is as good as the Jive's. So other than soft starts and possible slight power differences, is there a difference between the lower end esc's ie Castle, etc and the Jive/Yge all using the Vbar gov? Or is using the esc gov the way to go? I'm looking for a very smooth consistant feel just like the Jive and I'm a set it and forget it pilot. I don't mind fiddling with settings at first, but then I usually never touch them after.
VBar Gov is definitely more work to get it right, and you have to be concerned with esc/motor compatibility as just a few ESC's work.

If you like the Jive on your L600SE, the Jive is an excellent choice, 120HV or HeliJive in normal Gov mode, you will be happy. By far the easiest set and forget solution.

Easier than a YGE as far as work involved it getting it running and setup
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
Hi guys. The soft start its only the first .5 sec if that of the soft start that is a little quick, it does not fold the blades but its just not as soft as the jive, but after that .5sec it spools very slowly and nicely (better than jive).

I was testing inside and flipped the thr quickly and was a little concerned, but once out at the field its not an issue.
Changing endpoints did not change anything

If the YGE could be more protected and with BEC it would be ultimate IMHO!

Both are good esc, but for LE motors if you dont want an issue with a shutdown on a hot day then the 160 or 320A YGE is the way.

I might like the kosmic better, time will tell, ill let someone else try that.

In FFF the YGE seems to have more steam.
I would like to see a nice enclosure...i coulnt' agree with you more there but as far as an Internal BEC is concerned, i much rather it not be in there on anything bigger than 90hv to be honest. Adding a BEC to a 14s ESC increases complexity of the product...increasing the chance for something to go wrong. IF anything I much rather see a FBL system come with a built BEC instead....The FBL system drives the servos not the speed controller.
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