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HBFP V1/V2 E-Sky Honey Bee V1 & V2 Fixed Pitch


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Old 01-25-2012, 10:59 PM   #1
FireDoug
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Default Detrum GY48V HH 3D Gyro on HBFP V2 anyone?

So I picked up a Blade mSRX this week and was amazed at how locked in the yaw feels. This thing is rock solid! Now it is a tricky bird to fly, some ways harder, some ways easier than the HoneyBee. But I picked it up to help with my learning since we have had a lot of wind this winter that has prevented me from getting as much stick time as needed to keep the learning moving forward.

I have seen the posts and tutorials on adding a head lock gyro to the HBFP and was thinking of giving it a try. All the info I see is by using a Telebee gyro, and I was wondering if anyone has completed this mod with the Detrum GY48V HH 3D Gyro at Xheli for $9.00. Will this Gyro or any other Gyro work? The reason I am looking into the Detrum GY48V HH 3D Gyro is that it gets outstanding reviews and is dirt cheap.

So will it work?

I have already Spectremized my HBFP V2, so from what I have seen that will make the mod even easier than when you try to use the stock receiver in the 4in1. Pretty much plug and tune.

My thoughts on why I would like to do this is that HH Gyros are the standard in heli flight now, everything I see flys with tail locked-in, there is not a single Heli option that flies with the spastic tail in my Phoenix Sim, my goal is to fly bigger birds which will have HH gyros, so why suffer through the tail headaches with the HBFP V2 if there is a $9 fix? Even if this gets installed and tuned properly I don't expect it to completely cure the HBFP tail issues, but I would hope it might make a reasonable improvement. And I have gone through the 4in1 tune process for the rate gyro everytime I make any change to my HBFP V2, So I would consider myself very proficient at that process, and have it tuned as good as I can get it, but those of you flying know that if a humming bird farts within 100 feet of a HBFP V2 it is going to tail stutter during hover.

Thoughts?

Doug
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:43 AM   #2
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Received a Detrum Gyro via mail yesterday, and had the time to tinker tonight. So here is my results.

The setup:
Pulled the rudder wire from my spectrum RX. This is a servo extension wire from the Esky 4in1 minus the stock RX, so it is the control wire for the tail motor. This wire got plugged into the Detrum Gyro female plug (normally this is where you would plug in the tail servo, technically it is a male connection with a plastic sleeve surrounding it).

Then the Detrum rudder wire gets plugged into the RX rudder channel and the gear channel.

So far so good!

Powered it up and the Esky 4in1 and the Detrum Gyro both initialize, the Gyro switch on my DX6i activates the HH mode LED on the Gyro. Everything is going perfect.

Test flight ends up CP3 tail motor oscillating rpm at about a 1/4 second interval between high and low rev.

In HH mode the Bee is locked solid, working like an absolute champ, no drift at all, I start slamming the cyclic around and the nose stays dead on its bearing. When I flip the Gyro switch on the TX the LED on the Detrum goes off indicating in rate mode and the nose begins to drift around just like stock, but the RPMs are still oscillating.

So I take a break and come back after dinner to tinker with settings to get this thing fine tuned and get rid of the oscillation. Spend some time re-reading the Detrum instructions, multiple post on other HH Gyro installs, and then head out to tune.

I tried every possible adjustment and setting combination on the Detrum and adjusters on the DX6i and found the 50.5% is where Gyro HH light will come on, tired various adjustment combinations of delay, and limit all without removing the oscillation.

I am done, for the night, I am of the opinion that the Detrum has a mismatch, of something or other that prevents smooth control of the tail motor, as everything else is working as it should.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:05 AM   #3
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I've now played with a GY48 on one of my 450's - on my King 2 FP conversion..and even a 500..and my opinion is that it sucks....either rate is too twitchy or HH mode does not hold the tail well at all...there are a bunch of threads saying you need to crack the case open and use some hot glue to "weld" the board into the case...that they are all loose in there and thereby throws off how the gyro can work...i did this with one of mine and it made no difference...but could be a fix for you...i'm using the HobbyKing 401b clone gyro's now in everything and they work much much better...they have some drift but are 100% easier to tune to the heli's i have without question....and will lock the tail in 100% better...and are just as inexpensive...

it's my opinion that it may not be your setup..but a motor driven tail is hard to tune as well with an external gyro....my freinds Blade SR proved that to me when he never got his tail to hold firm..so i think you are fighting both issues...

hope someone else can chime in here and give their experiences with this gyro and the Bee..it is not a mod i've done to my V2 just cause of the issues i've seen people have...

Dan
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:44 PM   #4
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Try increasing the delay dial to 100%. Motor driven tails are slow to respond so the delay function will allow for this and the gyro will not be over correcting as much.
with the HK401 on my bee was at 100% delay and still had a tiny bit of oscillation.
Also make sure the DS switch is off.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:16 PM   #5
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Thanks for the ideas, I filled it up with hot glue today, and will try that and see if it helps.

Steamo, I tried the limit and the delay at several different combinations from 0 to 100. They don't change anything that I can tell. The digital servo switch is off, but I tried it on too, and it made the frequency of the oscillation increase, but was still there.

The the other switch is for reverse and normal, and I am running it in normal, with it reversed the bird spins like a top on Red Bull.

The TX is a DX6i and I ran the Gyro settings all over the place too. At 50.5 the HH LED illuminates, but the yaw still drifts like in rate mode you get up to 65 to 70 and the tail is rock solid.

The best way I can describe what it is doing is similar to when the stock gyro gain is too high and the birds tail is twitchy, and the DD CP3 tail motor revs high screaming and then slows a bit off and on and off and on. They tail does not twitch like the stock scenario but sound is very similar.

I guess if this was easy everybody would have on on the bee.

Well I took a break from tinkering and flew some FFF circuits with nice little stall turns, and it made my day.... I have only been flying for a month and never imagined 30 days ago I would be able even master hovering. I am hooked! Feels pretty awesome when your half way in control of it!

Thanks
Doug
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:42 PM   #6
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So what's happening in HH mode is once the tails veers off the heading you last commanded the gyro sends a signal to the TM esc to increase or decrease very quickly then the ESC tells to tail motor to power up or down. By the time the gyro senses that it is back on the heading it should be on and sends a signal to go to neutral the TM is still going/stopping from the last signal and ends up sending the tail back past the heading the gyro is trying to keep the at. and this repeats itself over and over.

If you turn the delay all the way up the gyro will wait a little before sending a signal to account for the slow tail response. You will probably find even with the delay at 100% it wont be quite enough and you will still get a little oscillation at even low gain settings.

Keep your limit at 100% too.

Don't forget the gyro gain dial on the 4in1 needs to be turned down to 0 at all times.

Re-do VL's guide to setting the proportional but for where he says tun the gain dial to 0 on your 4in1 you will now need to set the gain on your Tx to 0 (50% on Dx6i) the adjust the proportional dial until it holds close to steady.

Then when adjusting your gain on your Tx remember that 50% is 0 gain on the DX6i the further you get from 50 the higher the gain and that 50%-100% is HH and 50%-0% is Rate mode

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Old 01-31-2012, 11:53 PM   #7
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Steemo,

Great advise, I will give your advise a try. You educated my on the Gyro settings on the TX, i never knew about the 50% being the zero mark between rate and HH. I am amazed at how poor the manuals are for RC gear. Nothing about this in the Detrum manual and not a word about it in the Specturm manual either.

Best Regards
Doug
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:25 AM   #8
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Awesome explanation Steemo (as usual)
FD, if the above doesnt work I have two more ideas.
1- Not familar with your gyro but if it has a an ATV pot then set that to 0%.
ATV is the rudder travel (an end point) and effects CW piro rate.
Since your using a programmable TX the TX is where you want to set the endpoint. Possible the ATV is set too high + your TX AVT setting mixed with rudder trim may bee sending a slight pulse to the tail.

2-Reverse your gyro direction on the actual gyroscope, then reverse the gyros channel / or servo throw in the TX to get it working correctly. I have a feeling about this one............
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:00 AM   #9
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well spent another night tinkering with this Gyro with no joy.

I had filled it up with hot glue, set limit and delay back to 100, tried different adjustments on the DX6i gyro settings, reversed the gyro and normal the rudder channel on the tx.

Nothing every changes with all these variables, only thing that varies is the bearing being locked on while in HH mode.

Tail motor oscillation is ever present in all settings.

The Detrum Gyro is put in the parts bin waiting my future 450.

Thanks for all the advise guys, it was educational.

Doug
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDoug View Post
well spent another night tinkering with this Gyro with no joy.

I had filled it up with hot glue, set limit and delay back to 100, tried different adjustments on the DX6i gyro settings, reversed the gyro and normal the rudder channel on the tx.

Nothing every changes with all these variables, only thing that varies is the bearing being locked on while in HH mode.

Tail motor oscillation is ever present in all settings.

The Detrum Gyro is put in the parts bin waiting my future 450.

Thanks for all the advise guys, it was educational.

Doug
sorry you had so much trouble..it's why i'm not using them...i've had very good luck with the 401 clones from hobbyking..and a know a few peeps on here use the 250 mems gyro from them as well...may be worth you trying one of them out...
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:45 PM   #11
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I've had a lot of success with the 250 on my bigger Cp birds but could never get it to work on my bee.
Go for the hk401, that worked well on the bee

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Old 02-04-2012, 07:42 AM   #12
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The GA-250 gyro is not motorize tail friendly at all. The newer versions of the GA-250 do support analog, but end points need to be set just right for the gyro to work right with a motorize tail. This is almost impossible to do. There is only one person I have read about that was able to get the GA-250 to work decent with a motorized tail. Heís name here on HF is exblade and is a regular in the Esky King forum. If I remember right, to get his motorize tail to work right he used a servo tester to set the correct end points in the GA-250

Iíve tried a few different external gyros on my Bees and the all around best for the Bee would have to be the Turnigy 302, which is a clone of the Telebee, but at half the price. This gyro plays nice with the Bee 3in1 mixer and thereís no oscillation issues.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...l_Analog_.html


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Old 02-04-2012, 08:48 AM   #13
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Thanks for the input hank, your expertise with the bee has been sorely missed around here.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #14
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Great to see you back around here HH - weve missed you

Just looked back at a vid I made on converting my HBFP V1 7.4volt to separates including a Telebee HH gyro.

As always the vid ends in crashes,

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Old 02-05-2012, 09:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steemo View Post

Thanks for the input hank, your expertise with the bee has been sorely missed around here.
Thanks for the nice comment Steemo, but be honest, you probably miss my spectacular earth shaking Bee crashes the mostÖ.right, come on..tell me the truth. lol! Seriously it good to see you still hanging out in the Bee forum helping people out. As for me, I hardly fly my Bees anymore and for the most part have lost interest in them. It was a good ride, but no matter how much I modded my bees, they just didnít like going inverted. lol!
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:44 AM   #16
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Great to see you back around here HH - weve missed you
Thanks Bugster, much appreciated, but the real deal here is that youíre back! Our leader has returned! Brother Iíve always considered you one of the best moderators on Helifreak. You have always had a knack for keeping us hooligans inline.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:36 AM   #17
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Whoa...Bugster's a mod? What's the world coming to?
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HELIHANKSTER View Post
You have always had a knack for keeping us hooligans inline.
An acquired skill HH during which I've suffered many scars

Quote:
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Whoa...Bugster's a mod?
Nope - half a mod - I stay well out of the big boys forums where testosterone rules all discussions it seems.

I think WJ had so many comments on Esky thread hijacks, wandering threads, discussions about anything under the sun except the thread title that he wanted someone on the Esky forums to take the flak.

So he gave me the keys to the Esky Mod lounge only. And I believe in 3 years I am still the only HF Mod who has never issued a ban, infraction or other punishment. I'm definitely bottom of the Mod discipline league table.

Just found it easier to let you lot get on with it
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:17 AM   #19
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HBFP V1/V2 E-Sky Honey Bee V1 & V2 Fixed Pitch

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