KDS Innova Series: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

[Ghostflyer1]

Originally Posted by LaDon

Well unfortunately we had another thing show up. The little adjusters on the dfc head broke in the middle of elevator tic tocs. Heli was about 10 ft off the ground when it happened and the blades went into a big flutter and it crashed. Didn't hurt it too bad but still sucks. We have found a few weak spots now and I will modify this so it will be durable. I will tr y to remember to take a pic of my fix.

That would be outstanding!!!!!!

[Ghostflyer1]

Originally Posted by mrmarc

Since I am considering the Innova 550 (DFC) as a potential "next heli," and I was wondering if anyone could comment on the current one from HK. I'm concerned that these problems would warrant dropping it from the list of considerations, or are these problems with the "V1"?

The problems in the V1 have been addressed and corrected. The V2's are awsome flying birds.... I would not mark it off the list.....

[mrmarc]

I've only been able to find a handful of videos of the 550 V2, but is that little wobble during spool-up (vertical stabalizer taps the ground) common? Is it from the ebar?

YouTube

YouTube

YouTube

YouTube

[LaDon]

I would doubt that was from the ebar. I do know you dont want to goof around with them on the ground too long as goofy things can happen but that kind of looked like a setup might have been wrong. As far as the tail tapping the ground depending on how tight his blades are if you dont get them perfectly straight when you start you could get that. That part I wouldnt be too worried about but the tipping over I would want to figure that one out. Looked like maybe his gyro was backwards. They will fly with no gyro system and we have done it but it is touchy and takes work but that looked like something is wrong

[LaDon]

Well here is my fix for the DFC head. I eliminated it. I used an rjx lockiing ring with outrage arms on it. I took all the balls off the swash and used synergy balls on it cause they fit and also used the extended synergy balls on the blade arms and that got it close to centered. I have it all set up and looks good and should work better. The problem with the dfc setup is the dampening dosent alow the control arms to piviot with it so it puts a bind on the linkage and then the little adjusters break. Then the heli goes into a huge blade flutter and you lose all control. This setup will alow for the dampening to work like it should and not bind anything. Here is a pic.

[brewer00psd]

@LaDon
Good looking set up.

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[Adventurer]

Looks like my V1 head.

[mrmarc]

Looks good, but doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of the DFC head?

[Adventurer]

True, but the DFC head is flawed in concept anyway. Hence the broken links. :p

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[mrmarc]

Originally Posted by Adventurer

True, but the DFC head is flawed in concept anyway. Hence the broken links. :p

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You mean DFC in general, or particularly for the Innova 550 V2? I imagine an upgrade of sorts to the control arms would be in order to prevent them from breaking or popping out of their sockets. I just snapped one of the DFC connecting rods on my 450, but that was from a crash. It snapped clean off the arm with the threaded portion left inside.

[Adventurer]

DFC in general. The issues have been documented in depth on Helifreak. Basically comes down to the arms preventing blade flapping, resulting in major stress on the arms, and servos.


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[LaDon]

I dont know if this is true or not but I have heard that goblin and another one with the dfc head are going away from that. Like I said dont know if it is true or not could be a rumor.

[Adventurer]

Yup, the new GoblIn HPS head is a step back to swash drivers. Clearly sense has finally prevailed.

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[spackermen]

It has nothing to do with the "DFC" style head being a bad design. It has worked extremely well in some models and not so well in others. The simplicity of using a non swash driver setup is pretty great. However, expecially in a crash, it can and will break the driver arms or ball ends, etc.

[LaDon]

Yeah in a crash it will but if the heli goes in and breaks them I don't care. What happened to us is they broke without going in first. Then it piled the heli in, that is what I don't like

[Adventurer]

Originally Posted by spackermen

It has nothing to do with the "DFC" style head being a bad design. It has worked extremely well in some models and not so well in others. The simplicity of using a non swash driver setup is pretty great. However, expecially in a crash, it can and will break the driver arms or ball ends, etc.

So you're saying that the DFC style head does not interfere with the teetering that's built into our heads? Go rock your blades in the dampers and see if you can. The fact is that the rigid arms prevent the teeter (blade flapping) and this places severe loads on those arms, which is why pretty much everybody that has released a DFC head has had issues with the arms breaking in flight or boom strikes. There's quite simply a mechanical problem with DFC when implemented with rigid arms. The only DFC head that actually works is the original Compass head with Deldrin arms that everybody else cloned.

Ladon is right, the best fix for a DFC head is elimination.

[RDBill]

I have 3 align helicopters all with DFC heads. One of the helicopters is new and has hardly been flown, the other two have hundreds of flights on them without a single failure or boom strike. DFC heads are awesome, the difference between a typical head and a DFC head in flight is truly remarkable. There is some care that must be taken when setting up a DFC head and most people who have something bad to say about them, don't have it set up right or simply have heard "stories". The Globlin did have problems but they have apparently corrected it.

I'm sorry to hijack the thread. I came on here because a friend of mine who is very new to the hobby is thinking of buying one of these helis and I know nothing about them and I wanted to know peoples impressions of them.

[LaDon]

Yeah goblin fixed it they have a new head. Yes the dfc head will work and will be fine too. I think all a guy would have to do is make sure that a person pays attention to detail and do some good preventive maintainance. As far as flying goes the head flys fine the heli performed well with it. I would definetly still buy he heli it is a very nice chopper and flies extremely well

[spackermen]

Originally Posted by Adventurer

So you're saying that the DFC style head does not interfere with the teetering that's built into our heads? Go rock your blades in the dampers and see if you can. The fact is that the rigid arms prevent the teeter (blade flapping) and this places severe loads on those arms, which is why pretty much everybody that has released a DFC head has had issues with the arms breaking in flight or boom strikes. There's quite simply a mechanical problem with DFC when implemented with rigid arms. The only DFC head that actually works is the original Compass head with Deldrin arms that everybody else cloned.

Ladon is right, the best fix for a DFC head is elimination.

Actually. Yes. With flexible rods such as the compass design it is achievable without putting a bind (less of a bind) on the swash. Any "dfc" head with a full rigid link from swash to head,, yet still has dampeners I agree with you though.

I like it from simplicity sake not having a swash driver, but with only compass' heads having good success, it's probably not something everyone should have jumped head first into.

[Ghostflyer1]

I did something like that with my V1 head. I cut the pins off and then used a locking collar on it... I felt more comfortable with it that way. thought it was much more solid.

Originally Posted by LaDon

Well here is my fix for the DFC head. I eliminated it. I used an rjx lockiing ring with outrage arms on it. I took all the balls off the swash and used synergy balls on it cause they fit and also used the extended synergy balls on the blade arms and that got it close to centered. I have it all set up and looks good and should work better. The problem with the dfc setup is the dampening dosent alow the control arms to piviot with it so it puts a bind on the linkage and then the little adjusters break. Then the heli goes into a huge blade flutter and you lose all control. This setup will alow for the dampening to work like it should and not bind anything. Here is a pic.