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Old 02-20-2012, 06:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by alexmit View Post
I want to thank both you and Mystic for demystifying this for me. I'm pretty sure I get it now and like your added comments about offsetting. I was reading over in the Logo XXtreme forum that they are running the YGE 160 with the Brake on. I'm not sure why that would be, but MrMel is saying it won't work right without it. Now I'm curious if that would be true for all YGE ESCs.
That is news to me...I've never enabled brake on any of mine...but i also havent flown 800mm blades yet.. Even though Mr Mel is one of the most knowledgeable people here on HF and trusted when it comes to Vbar/Kontronic... i dont think he's much of a YGE fan.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:58 PM   #22
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Setup instructions from YGE for Extreme.
Brake=off

Weird why default on the Mikado YGE is. Brake=on??

hier nun die lang ersehnten default Parameter des YGE 160 HV XXtreme. Einzustellen mit der
YGE ProgCard II:

* Timing = 18°
* Brake = off
* cut off type / accutype = slow down / Lipo
* cut off voltage = 3,1V
* cells = keine = automatische Erkennung der Zellenzahl
* Special Functions: Stop1,07ms, Full Speed 1,93ms
* act.-Freew. = on / Gov. = off
* P-Gain = 0,9 (irrelevant im Gov off)
* I-Gain = 0,05 (irrelevant im Gov off)
* Startup Speed = Heli middle (Gov off, 3 x Enter, Plane middle)
* PWM-Frequency = 12 kHz
* Start power = Auto (1-32%)

Im Anhang ein pdf zur Vorgehensweise.

Vielen Dank für deine Geduld.

Gruß, Heino
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic3D View Post
Setup instructions from YGE for Extreme.
Brake=off

Weird why default on the Mikado YGE is. Brake=on??

hier nun die lang ersehnten default Parameter des YGE 160 HV XXtreme. Einzustellen mit der
YGE ProgCard II:

* Timing = 18°
* Brake = off
* cut off type / accutype = slow down / Lipo
* cut off voltage = 3,1V
* cells = keine = automatische Erkennung der Zellenzahl
* Special Functions: Stop1,07ms, Full Speed 1,93ms
* act.-Freew. = on / Gov. = off
* P-Gain = 0,9 (irrelevant im Gov off)
* I-Gain = 0,05 (irrelevant im Gov off)
* Startup Speed = Heli middle (Gov off, 3 x Enter, Plane middle)
* PWM-Frequency = 12 kHz
* Start power = Auto (1-32%)

Im Anhang ein pdf zur Vorgehensweise.

Vielen Dank für deine Geduld.

Gruß, Heino
I've asked about these settings in another thread and I didn't get much of an answer. Now you produced them and have become my new hero.

The main thing I was interested in seeing in those settings was how they got the custom stop and full speed settings already set in the controller. They are optimized for vBar. I wonder how one would set stop 1.07ms and full speed 1.93ms with a program card or how you would even read those settings. I guess I'll just offset my endpoints and quit over thinking this. :-)
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:10 PM   #24
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The reason the brake is activated on the XXtreme is so the motor goes to a full stop to avoid comutation errors I have been told.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:15 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by alexmit View Post
I've asked about these settings in another thread and I didn't get much of an answer. Now you produced them and have become my new hero.

The main thing I was interested in seeing in those settings was how they got the custom stop and full speed settings already set in the controller. They are optimized for vBar. I wonder how one would set stop 1.07ms and full speed 1.93ms with a program card or how you would even read those settings. I guess I'll just offset my endpoints and quit over thinking this. :-)

Stop and full speed are programmable on the YGE....whereas the Kontronic heli jive are pre-set. I'm not sure how they do this exactly but i guess it works. I originally hated the programmable endpoints on the YGE... Only after I started experimenting with external govs like the vbar or SK720, did i start to see the benefit. Recently I started experimenting with the Futaba CGY750's Gov using my YGE120HV &90HV. In the last firmware update, Futaba made a few changes to Gov to allow for future Electric Governing. Since there is no official CGY750 Egov process yet, i had to adapt what i learned from the vbar. One thing i learned while experimenting with the CGY750's gov was the importance throttle resolution. Mr Mel explains it in his vbar videos perfectly...saying that without adequate resolution tiny throttle adjustments can result in big jumps in RPM. In the same way that precise low/high endpoints are critical for proper E-gov operation, so is adequate resolution. I made use of the programmable endpoints on the YGE to increase throttle resolution just slightly which helped prevent over-speeding when running higher headspeed ranges (above 75% throttle). Part of the reason for taller gearing when using external govs is this.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #26
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Thanks for bringing this to my attention Joe1l. I will try it this weekend. Weather is finally good. I cant see however how this is going to improve the bailout the amount that is needed to be usefull. Will report back.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
The reason the brake is activated on the XXtreme is so the motor goes to a full stop to avoid comutation errors I have been told.
That's what it was!
I wonder if that only applies to the Mikado XXtreme combo, or if it applies to other motors as well.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by alexmit View Post
That's what it was!
I wonder if that only applies to the Mikado XXtreme combo, or if it applies to other motors as well.
This is news to me....does the XXtreme come with a specific motor that this applies to? I would leave brake off on everything till we get some more info from YGE on this!
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:04 PM   #29
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Dont see that brake would be a problem, it would just stop the motor faster when you kill throttle. Could it be like the Kontronik, it doesn't like it if you bail out of an auto before the motor stops spinning (loses commutation and has fried a few unsupported motors in VBar gov mode). Brake would likely prevent that.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:21 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Dont see that brake would be a problem, it would just stop the motor faster when you kill throttle. Could it be like the Kontronik, it doesn't like it if you bail out of an auto before the motor stops spinning (loses commutation and has fried a few unsupported motors in VBar gov mode). Brake would likely prevent that.
Gov store is looking more attractive by the minute......
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:51 PM   #31
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If the Heli has a One Way Bearing, only heli I can think of that does not is Logo 400, should be no problem to have brake on.


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Old 02-21-2012, 07:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe1l View Post
Gov store is looking more attractive by the minute......
Eh?
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by joe1l View Post
If you have an abrupt spool up, try extending your endpoints...so far it seems to working excellent for me. To do this effectively you need to set your startup power to Auto! If you are using 2% it will not work. I find that with my Futaba 8FG programming at 100/100 usually calibrates to 92 -94 for low end to 98 -100 on the high. I now program with an offset to allow equal high and low. Hence if -100/100 gave me -92 /98 , i would program with -108/102 .....which calibrates to perfect 100/100. I have found that this alone has given me excellent results with my 12s motors compared to 92 or 94 on the low.....i have gone as far as 112/112...showing even smoother soft starts and letting me use slightly higher gov gains.

For anyone using an older pre-phase sensor YGE with Vbar gov...this will help alot. I did this with my older YGE100LV on my Vbar gov...extending the endpoints to 105/105 which not only resutled in slower soft-start but also allowed me to use higher gov gains! I flew it this weekend with new endpoints and very happy with the way it flew compared to original 94/98 endpoints.
Thks for the trick Joe, awesome , following your instruction we just adjust on the TX Thro ATV to extend the endpoint in Vbar bigger than 100, right? and after that we just continue to follow the Mystic3d 's V3 instruction or needed to change somthing in process, please advice us, thanks so much
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:02 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by brain View Post
Thks for the trick Joe, awesome , following your instruction we just adjust on the TX Thro ATV to extend the endpoint in Vbar bigger than 100, right? and after that we just continue to follow the Mystic3d 's V3 instruction or needed to change somthing in process, please advice us, thanks so much
In this scenario you are doing this to reprogram ESC End Points, so turn off VBar Gov instead of using collective control.
Reason is you what the throttle channel output instead of collective output to program ESC.
I just did it this way to use same process mr mel used in his vids.


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Old 02-28-2012, 10:32 AM   #35
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Thks for the trick Joe, awesome , following your instruction we just adjust on the TX Thro ATV to extend the endpoint in Vbar bigger than 100, right? and after that we just continue to follow the Mystic3d 's V3 instruction or needed to change somthing in process, please advice us, thanks so much
I recalibrated my endpoints on my YGE 120HV with the TX at 120/120 throttle channel endpoints with the governor off and used the throttle channel for setting up motor stop and full throttle with the Prog Card II. I then went back into the vbar software and set up motor stop and full throttle in the Gov II screen per MrMel's videos. When I took it to the field I could tell the difference first with a softer start, then what felt like an apparent 15% power increase. Maybe the apparent power increase is just because the governor has more resolution to work with now. I know I certainly like it even more than I did before and it was no slouch then.

The results were with a 4035-560 that is in my 7HV. PWM 9 timing 18, start Auto, Heli Middle, Plane Fast.
The ESC and motor felt cooler to touch, but I didn't have my thermometer to confirm.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:45 AM   #36
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Do you change the transmitter endpoints back to give -100 and 100 in the vbar control screen after setting endpoints or do you keep them higher?
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:08 PM   #37
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Do you change the transmitter endpoints back to give -100 and 100 in the vbar control screen after setting endpoints or do you keep them higher?
They are still at 120 in the tx. Otherwise the motor tries to start at low stick.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:10 PM   #38
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thks guys, I will try this trick on My Logo this week, really be eager to find out some thing, hehehe
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