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Old 03-06-2012, 04:51 PM   #1
MilitaryMachinist
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Beating a dead horse here, but now that the X series is starting to be on shelves will there ever Brush-less micros stock? I would pay the extra $30 or whatever to buy a stock brush-less out of box helicopter! It would be amazing to see the MCPX, MQX, MSRX and maybe even some others come with a brush-less option on the shelves!

Also will yall be using the new ultra durable plastics? I have seen a couple of companies now using them! I tested one that I own that has these new super durable plastics and neither my landing skid, blades, or canopies have broken... Will HH anytime soon be switching to these new plastics? I know its less money for you guys but I have a helicopter that has taken a beating much worse than my MCPX and has survived incredibly well! Not a part has broken on it even after tumbling on concrete!

Just curious
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:09 PM   #2
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[QUOTE=MilitaryMachinist;3724657
Also will yall be using the new ultra durable plastics? I have seen a couple of companies now using them! I tested one that I own that has these new super durable plastics and neither my landing skid, blades, or canopies have broken... Will HH anytime soon be switching to these new plastics? I know its less money for you guys but I have a helicopter that has taken a beating much worse than my MCPX and has survived incredibly well! Not a part has broken on it even after tumbling on concrete!

Just curious [/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on the ultra durable plastic?
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:04 PM   #3
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canopy stomp test:

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Old 03-06-2012, 07:46 PM   #4
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I did a google on 'ultra durable plastic', and didn't come up with any hits that would indicate there was any recent breakthrough in polymer technology.

What is this plastic that your talking about?

I always thought of plastic is a very generic term. There are so may factors that go into a plastic that affect its density, elasticity, and probably a dozen other things that I would not have any clue about. Anything I do know about it was from what I learned from Modern Marvels on the history channel, or was that discovery channel..

Would the same formula that makes a good canopy, make a good frame or swash? And the blades I bet would be even different too?
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:58 PM   #5
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I am a Materials Engineer with my primary focus on polymers. There are hundreds of different types of polymers. Then add in structure, morphology, blends, additives, and processing and you have infinite possibilities. Plastics cost from under a $1 per pound for PVC to like $45/lb for PEEK.

Plastics are highly variable to say the least!!
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:00 PM   #6
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$0.35 combs have been unbreakable since the 80's... what's the problem here??? I'm about to start melting combs down and molding my own landing skids LMAO.

Hard enought to comb knotty hair, flexible enough to bend in half without breaking, durable enough to retake their shape. Serious question. Why arent skids/blades/frames/links made out of the same stuff?
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:31 PM   #7
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Beating a dead horse here, but now that the X series is starting to be on shelves will there ever Brush-less micros stock? I would pay the extra $30 or whatever to buy a stock brush-less out of box helicopter! It would be amazing to see the MCPX, MQX, MSRX and maybe even some others come with a brush-less option on the shelves!

Also will yall be using the new ultra durable plastics? I have seen a couple of companies now using them! I tested one that I own that has these new super durable plastics and neither my landing skid, blades, or canopies have broken... Will HH anytime soon be switching to these new plastics? I know its less money for you guys but I have a helicopter that has taken a beating much worse than my MCPX and has survived incredibly well! Not a part has broken on it even after tumbling on concrete!

Just curious
1st, would be way more than 30$.

Second, these plastics would increase the costs a lot, and you want some of the parts to break in crashes. A skid breaking saves the frame. blade grips breaking saves the head, etc.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:31 PM   #8
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I am pretty sure the forces one heli parts during crash are a bit in excess of that to comb knotty hair (having two little girls) I've got some experience in that!! :-). I think I still have one of those combs in pink from the '80s.

In all seriousness I am sure it comes down to cost. Looking at the plastic parts on my mSR and mCP X they all appear to be made out of the same plastic, gears and canopies aside The implication is that they can buy in bulk and the processing is going to be the same so less risk in making molds and making parts. Ideally each part would have a material picked for the specific application, but that's just not reality and most mechanical engineers have a very limited knowledge of polymers.

I was looking at the skids the other day wondering what I would make them out of given the option of any plastic. It's a tough call given the the need to be thin, somewhat stiff and need to really flex at a high rate without breaking. I would probably pick a relatively hard thermoplastic elastomer like a 90A polyurethane or 40D polyester copolymer. But that's a guess.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:58 PM   #9
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All things considered, the plastic used is pretty strong, I would look into the design itself. I will use the MCPX as a reference since it is well known for taking a beating and parts are very similar to other models.

The skids for example have the little bracers where the legs meet the feet, but at the bends near the top of the legs, non, and thus brakes occur at that point, mounting pins are also a weak point for the same reason.
The points that brake on the frame most often, are the mounting rods, and the tail rod socket. Those points have the same thing in common with the skid, thin, not reinforced AND ALL at a 80* - 90* degree angle in proportion to what its connected with.

Reinforce the points, OR just make sure just about all the features on the MCPX are over 2mm in thinness (2.5mm-3mm should be enough) (and with in reason of course) Yes it would add a bit of weight but I think it would be more then acceptable. as for the part about some parts braking to save others, even with adding the extra reinforcements i think there would still be plenty of bounce left in the parts that would avoid damaging something more critical.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:18 PM   #10
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If there was just a brushless version with a little longer boom to control tail blow-out I'd pick one up like probably most people.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:35 PM   #11
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I'd be really surprised if a brushless micro wasn't already on the product roadmap for next year. There is obviously huge demand for one, but the HH crew are in the process of releasing 3 new heli's over the next few months, so it will take time.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:33 AM   #12
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Sounds like you need to apply for the job of Heli developer that is being posted by HH
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:02 AM   #13
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Its very doable, I will post another video up some time of the landing skids I have that are near about indestructible and the blades too. The designs are out there, we know what breaks and what doesn't. I don't believe that having more durable blades is going to take away from the head and cause more breaks. Because it hasn't happened on my other helicopters that are made from this stuff. It can't cost that much more either since those helicopters are around the same price range... I think it just comes down to getting it done.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:44 AM   #14
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To some degree it does come down to cost.

However Blade's competition is starting to offer some very good, very durable products that compete very well in the mCPx class.

It would be better for Blade to lose some parts business due to having a better product then lose market share.

That is why competition is good for us. For a long time Walkera had the ultra micro market to themselves...and they were not that good. Then the mCPx came along and changed the game. Walkera has had to respond with some pretty good offerings. Now Blade better step up their game.

It is amazing how far the hobby has come in the last three years. In the end the consumer is the one that wins :-).
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:50 AM   #15
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Its not just Walkera either. You have Align, Nine Eagles, Air Hogs (Junk but still makes good money) along with some other companies bringing indoor helis to the table. I really don't like how Blade is being out performed because I like HH. I even picked up a pre-order on a 300X even though I have a T-Rex 250 Beast X FBL... I would love to see HH top Walkera and Nine Eagles.

But I do also own a Mini CP. And the Mini CP way out performs the MCPX which was a huge disappointment to me. I would much rather have wished the MCPX was the better helicopter but my Mini CP way out performs the MCPX stock for stock.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:57 AM   #16
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I'm stoked, and yet at the same time... disappointed.

I've been dropping hint after hint to the wife that I'd like a Blade 300X for Father's day. Do you think hanging a picture of one up on the den wall is too much? Nah, me neither.

But...

Where's the factory brushless mCPX model?

The current mCPX is a great Fisherman's Hook; guys that are new to CP (or even new to single rotor helis) get a new mCPX, and instantly fall in love with it. Right up to the point that they start doing real aerobatics. Sure, the current mCPX will fly inverted, and do basic aerobatics, but it really needs the added oomph of a brushless motor to realize it's full potential.

Unfortunately, DIY brushless for the mCPX is kind of a hit and miss, way too fiddly thing. Results are inconsistent. And for those of us that would rather spend more time wearing out lipos than staring through a magnifying glass, it's a tedious (and potentially expensive) process.

Would it kill Blade to add an "mCPX 3D" model that comes stock with a brushless main and tail?

Ah well... maybe next year.
Can't have too many of these threads, IMO.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:22 AM   #17
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Competition drives the market. Now that companies are making comparable brushless cp helis that are at or below HH price point they will start paying attention I think. It's not a reliability issue with the brushless motors. It's the fact it would cost them more and in hurt price point which would affect sales. It'll happen eventually though. I remember when the msr came out and I was thinking, "man it would be awesome if they made a cp heli this size or a little bigger"
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:18 PM   #18
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I think the mini size helicopters like the MCPX are way under powered stock. They are great to learn on though, very durable for the most part.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:16 PM   #19
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I think HH is going about this the right way. Assuming they do have a micro brushless offering in the future, it would be my guess that the higher headspeed will hurt the durability of the heli..

If they had come out with a brushless mCPX first, the experienced folks may have liked the performance, but more folks, like the very inexperienced pilots such as my self when I started back in June 2011, would have been disappointed in the durability.

This would possibly have tainted the mCPX's reputation, and it would not have enjoyed the immense popularity that it has now.

So, releasing the more durable intermediate model first, then the advanced one later I think was the right direction.

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I think HH is going about this the right way. Assuming they do have a micro brushless offering in the future, it would be my guess that the higher headspeed will hurt the durability of the heli..

If they had come out with a brushless mCPX first, the experienced folks may have liked the performance, but more folks, like the very inexperienced pilots such as my self when I started back in June 2011, would have been disappointed in the durability.

This would possibly have tainted the mCPX's reputation, and it would not have enjoyed the immense popularity that it has now.

So, releasing the more durable intermediate model first, then the advanced one later I think was the right direction.

Just my opinion.
Exactly.
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