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Old 03-18-2012, 04:56 PM   #1
AcidDrink
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Default Autos/landing

Do you guys use some special vbar settings for autos/landing, the field I fly at has quite uneven ground (not bad, but it's not perfectly flat everywhere) and I had heli slightly leaning today when landed and flicked TH. Gave it a bit of cyclic to counter so it didn't tip over. (I landed under power btw), but it was a bit uncomfortable.

I have gryo gain a bit lower in TH mode (bank switch).

I use CGY750 on my tiny heli (protos) and I just give it a lot of negative when on the ground. Is it safe to go almost full negative (I run -13.5 pitch) to bled headpseed/stabilize the TDR on the ground?
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:12 PM   #2
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The best tip from the smacktalk auto vid is to go full negative as soon as you are on the ground from an auto to prevent tip over. (can be caused by a slight breeze).

i always hit hold and bleed to HS before its on the deck. even if its just a baby auto.

i would not go full negative under power on the deck.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardmills View Post
The best tip from the smacktalk auto vid is to go full negative as soon as you are on the ground from an auto to prevent tip over. (can be caused by a slight breeze).

i always hit hold and bleed to HS before its on the deck. even if its just a baby auto.

i would not go full negative under power on the deck.
Thanks, no not under power, after I hit TH. Don't want another hole in the field
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by AcidDrink View Post
Do you guys use some special vbar settings for autos/landing
I utilise a separate bank specifically for autos.

I dull down the agility for this bank.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:22 PM   #5
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I utilise a separate bank specifically for autos.

I dull down the agility for this bank.
What's your agility setting on that bank, if I can ask?
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #6
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I do baby autos to bleed of head speed if I reach the deck to land and not from a high auto. Be careful that once landed under power and with high rpm, if you hit hold and pull full negative some FBL units go crazy and move the swash strongly in some direction. Usually this is because of ground resonances that generate vibrations that drive the unit crazy.

I usually auto from a couple of feet high, bleed off rpm and land, then give negative gradually to slow the rotor down and get to full negative at a speed were even a swash tilt will not tip the heli over.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by marcosp View Post
I do baby autos to bleed of head speed if I reach the deck to land and not from a high auto. Be careful that once landed under power and with high rpm, if you hit hold and pull full negative some FBL units go crazy and move the swash strongly in some direction. Usually this is because of ground resonances that generate vibrations that drive the unit crazy.

I usually auto from a couple of feet high, bleed off rpm and land, then give negative gradually to slow the rotor down and get to full negative at a speed were even a swash tilt will not tip the heli over.
Thanks a lot, very comprehensive explanation, I'll try it next weekend.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:21 AM   #8
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Normally people are comfortable with agility from 90 to 110 for regular flying. Having a bank with lower agility is like using a dual rate actually, almost identical though the whole control loop comes into play with agility and only lower input and resolution with dual rate. You could use lower agility for Hold, nothing wrong with that. I used 80 until I started doing aerobatic autos. Now I use the same Agility as my Idle 1 which is one of my low rpm conditions. Since I use 3 Idle Ups for 4 head speeds (N 1400, 1 1450, 2 1650, 3 1800), those occupy the 4 banks. What I did is make Hold activate bank 1 (0 being the first), the same I use in Idle 1. When I configured Idle 1 at 1450 and lowered the Agility just a bit I saw it was the most fit to be used for Hold as well. If I remember correctly I am using 90, on all the others 100. And believe it or not, I do need two banks for Normal and Idle 1 even if they are 50 rpm apart. Normal is for taking off and approach to landing if not autoing, very solid and stable, style on the precise side (120), no pitch pump, no paddle sim; Idle 1 has pretty low style value (60) which helps with piro funnels which I do a lot on that head speed, some pitch pump (10), mid paddle sim (20). Idle 3 is the most extreme with 20 pitch pump, 30 paddle sim. Gains are adjusted for each rpm, as well as tail gain and piro speed.

Sorry if I went to much into detail but I thought it might give you ideas to do your setup as you like it.
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:06 AM   #9
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Marcos, thank you again, this is really great explanation and gave me a lot of ideas to experiment with.

Do you use flat curve in "normal" mode, or have a zero at low stick then flat (for example 0-80-80-80). I think of it only as safety device, but it makes normal unusable for flying...

ps. My gf won't be happy tho as I'll be dragging her laptop to the field very often
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:06 AM   #10
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I could recommend using throttle hold/kill switch + 1 additional mix switch for stopping the motor.
No throttle curve from 0, there will be one day when you forget to switch flying mode and go inverted, or bump the throttle when preparing the heli.
2 kill switches, one for regular use and one as safety for use after you land.
We have slow starts and governors, so raising the RPM manually by throttle stick is thing of past for electric helis.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:44 AM   #11
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I agree. I used 0 and slowly moved to flat curves and Hold + Cut. Besides, the Jive is blocked above cero which I have used since day one and never failed. Even when I used 0 I would plug with stick in the middle, the go to 0 after placing the heli on the ground. Now I plug the LiPo with Normal which is flat and hit and release Hold before flight to init the Jive. I have done this for 2000 flights aprox so I am more confident after plugging an not hearing bips than to have Hold + Cut active, hearing the bips after plugging and praying it doesn't start since it already initialized. I only need to be specially aware on the Sylphide and the X2 which don't have K. I burned a Hacker with a HobbyWing which should have been blocked at mid stick (it had been for many starts) and somehow started moving so other than K, all others I use 0 or Hold + Cut.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcosp View Post
I agree. I used 0 and slowly moved to flat curves and Hold + Cut. Besides, the Jive is blocked above cero which I have used since day one and never failed. Even when I used 0 I would plug with stick in the middle, the go to 0 after placing the heli on the ground. Now I plug the LiPo with Normal which is flat and hit and release Hold before flight to init the Jive. I have done this for 2000 flights aprox so I am more confident after plugging an not hearing bips than to have Hold + Cut active, hearing the bips after plugging and praying it doesn't start since it already initialized. I only need to be specially aware on the Sylphide and the X2 which don't have K. I burned a Hacker with a HobbyWing which should have been blocked at mid stick (it had been for many starts) and somehow started moving so other than K, all others I use 0 or Hold + Cut.
Thanks for the answer again. My ESC (fusion hawk) won't initialize at non zero values, so I'll just flatten the curve and use your method.

Any pointers how to configure throttle cut switch?
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #13
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Be careful please, test it without blades several times. I trust a Jive's cut, not sure about a FH. Th Cut on the radio is like hold but only for Throttle. In Futaba you have it close to the Hold menu (same screen on 7H and 8FG). You just set a level, usually 0%, choose a switch and at which position it's on, which off.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Be careful please, test it without blades several times. I trust a Jive's cut, not sure about a FH. Th Cut on the radio is like hold but only for Throttle. In Futaba you have it close to the Hold menu (same screen on 7H and 8FG). You just set a level, usually 0%, choose a switch and at which position it's on, which off.
Thanks! I'll test it many times w/o blades, but after a bit of thinking TH+TC seems to be less prone to a mishap.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:43 PM   #15
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sorry i dont get what you are on about with TH and Throttle cut?
Are you using multiple throttle 0 switches and a normal curve or 0?

I was going to use normal with 0 bit i think its too easy to flick out of idle2 all the way back to normal.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:50 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by richardmills View Post
sorry i dont get what you are on about with TH and Throttle cut?
Are you using multiple throttle 0 switches and a normal curve or 0?

I was going to use normal with 0 bit i think its too easy to flick out of idle2 all the way back to normal.
Throttle hold as usual (0) and in addition to this, separate throttle cut switch (set to zero). This way, you have to switch both of them to start the heli. Throttle cut acts as safety switch.
I just configured this on my 8fg, took 5 minutes.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:58 PM   #17
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does the extra switch at 0 override all other throttle switch values?
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:31 AM   #18
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Yes, that's what the function does, 0 no matter what.
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