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450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters 450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 05-19-2012, 03:03 PM   #1
EGG_
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Default NEW Tarot DFC head...???

What do you guys think about this New design DFC head by Tarot compaired to the Align DFC?



I think it interesting that it has bolt on link holders. what do you think of these?

I dont like that it uses a new feathering shaft, hollow, supposably lighter?

I like that the Tarot main shaft has a collar, helps with eliminating up and down slop

compaired to the built in collar you have to shim.


I wonder if the Tarot link will be any better/stronger.



Tarots hub is hollow, lighter?



Looks like there avalible for about the same price as align, I was hoping they would be cheaper. Tarot $39.99 Align $49.99

Lets hear your thoughts and concerns.
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:26 PM   #2
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believe it or not, that hollow feathering shaft is probably stronger than the stock align shaft. is it the same length as stock?

is the main shaft the same size as the align dfc kit? id probably be on the lookout for those instead of grinding the collar off to make it work with an SE V2 / Sport V1
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:56 PM   #3
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Those Tarot main shafts might be the same size as the DFC shafts that'll be the perfect solution to get rid of that up/down slop with out shimming !! I like !! The head looks cheap,It kinda looks like a RJX/Align knock off !!We all knew it was coming LOL!!
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:31 PM   #4
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The additional spacing between the radial bearings is very, very interesting:



http://www.oomodel.com/tarot-450-dfc...a-p-63139.html

The design also means less thrust bearing maintenance probably. Although in the same stroke, the Tarot head places the bearings in the DFC arms closer... almost looks like there's only room for one bearing in there.

Align arms with Tarot grips maybe?

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Old 05-20-2012, 06:30 AM   #5
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You know, this made me wondering... isn't it that the purpose of the thrust bearing is to carry the horizontal force/weight caused by the centrifugal force?

In that Tarot DFC layout, it would look like the feathering shaft bolt is now resting on the inner race of the radial bearing instead of the thrust bearing. So, now the centrifugal force is carried by the radial bearing's inner race instead of the thrust bearing. Am I missing something?
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:17 AM   #6
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I'm not so sure about the design of the blade grips, particularly the placement of the thrust bearings.

What is useful is that the head and grips have a line to adjust 0 degrees pitch.

I like the Align DFC more
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:03 PM   #7
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that thrust bearing placement is very odd. is the graphic correct or are there any docs on why?
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeall View Post
that thrust bearing placement is very odd.

Please explain why.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeall View Post
that thrust bearing placement is very odd. is the graphic correct or are there any docs on why?

what's so odd about it? The msh protos main blade grips is designed the same way. No problems with it! please back up your statements before making them
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pani View Post
Please explain why.
like the previous posters mentioned, when the blades are swinging out it would put all that force on the inner race of the radial bearing. that doesnt seem right. i think those bearings would get worn pretty quickly

edit: im not gonna argue with the engineers. they put the time and brains into it. i was just asking why since it is different than the align design and other thrust bearing applications
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:54 PM   #11
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This is just my two cents so take it for what its worth.

If you have the two radial bearings on either side of the girp it helps eliminate the blade grip from tettering up and down on the spindle. From the rendering as the grip is spinning it will put all of its cintrifiacl forces on the thrust bearing that will then be transmited to the brown washer. This brown washer looks like it will only touch the inner race of the radial bearing on the other side it. The diagram then shows a white washer that is the same size of the spindle (I am hoping someone just screwed up when doing the rendering other wise the grips going to fly off) but if the white washer only touches the inner race of the radial bearing all the centrifical forces should transfer nicely to the bolt. Right?
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nim View Post
This is just my two cents so take it for what its worth.

If you have the two radial bearings on either side of the girp it helps eliminate the blade grip from tettering up and down on the spindle. From the rendering as the grip is spinning it will put all of its cintrifiacl forces on the thrust bearing that will then be transmited to the brown washer. This brown washer looks like it will only touch the inner race of the radial bearing on the other side it. The diagram then shows a white washer that is the same size of the spindle (I am hoping someone just screwed up when doing the rendering other wise the grips going to fly off) but if the white washer only touches the inner race of the radial bearing all the centrifical forces should transfer nicely to the bolt. Right?
+1 This is exactly what happens and why other helicopters go this route instead. It gives you grips with less slop and less of a chance that dirt and dust will get into the thrust bearing.

As far as the inner race is concerned, yes, it transmits axial force out to the bolt through its steel tube structure but that does not put any axial force on the actual ball bearings or the races' bearing surfaces.

The arms are probably better too since the close bearings will be stiff enough to do the job but have a little extra play for when the geometry changes and the grips/feathering spindle are not perpendicular to the mainshaft during hard maneuvers. Compass has delrin connecting tubes for this purpose but Align decided to go with stiff aluminum which puts more bending stress/fatigue on the bolt going into the grip.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:35 PM   #13
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Yes I see it now, It is actually a very clever design the way the thrust bearings are placed between the ball bearings.

As regards the link arms

The arms are probably better too since the close bearings will be stiff enough to do the job but have a little extra play for when the geometry changes and the grips/feathering spindle are not perpendicular to the mainshaft during hard maneuvers.

Whether this is really true remains to be seen
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trexpro View Post
Yes I see it now, It is actually a very clever design the way the thrust bearings are placed between the ball bearings.

As regards the link arms

The arms are probably better too since the close bearings will be stiff enough to do the job but have a little extra play for when the geometry changes and the grips/feathering spindle are not perpendicular to the mainshaft during hard maneuvers.

Whether this is really true remains to be seen
So, transfering that energy to the bolt doesn't mean that you need higher quality bolts now? Does tarot have a rep of good quality bolts?
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:34 PM   #15
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Any head should transfers the the whole energy through the thrust bearing to the bolt. If the bolt is gone you blade is too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anmatheextreme View Post
So, transfering that energy to the bolt doesn't mean that you need higher quality bolts now? Does tarot have a rep of good quality bolts?
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:12 PM   #16
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My only concern with the Clone parts is the quality of them. Are they bolts and bearings going to be good quality? I tend to stay away from cloned parts UNLESS they are proven to be better quality than the originlas. I bought a clone 500 in the past and had nothing but problems with the head, I dont want to go through that again. From the reading I have done is seems like the Tarot parts are the better of the cloned parts but are they better than Align parts?
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:49 PM   #17
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has the quality of align flybarless head gone down or have align been overcharging for flybatless parts?

the DFC head costs $55 which is good value in my opinion

the previous flybarless head would cost around $100 to convert from flybar to flybarless
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:31 AM   #18
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did anyone order this one?
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:29 PM   #19
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Do the new arms with the direct swash drive arms thrash the servos in a crash? I've got an RJX head w/ and turnbuckle linkages and on a crash, I break one or two.

My worry here is if I'm moving a cheap break point ($3 turnbuckle) to a more expensive and more difficult to replace break point ($25 servo gears).

Outside of that, it's a cleaner setup w/o the separate swash driver.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:48 PM   #20
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I have the Tarot DFC coming. The design looks a bit different from Align, as the dampners are bigger, the feathering shaft bolt is bigger and I can't 100% remember but I think the feathering shaft is thicker and the bearings are larger too. Looked to me like they built it strong.
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