Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-19-2012, 03:47 AM   #1
ofaingu
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Israel,Nitzan
Default logo 600 sx vs old 600 3d

what is really the diference? is it worth buying the "upgrades"?is it flying better?


thank you all
ofaingu is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 12:43 PM   #2
dahld
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bakersfield, California, USA
Default

If you are an aggressive 3D pilot, then you'll be more likely to appreciate the design changes (the main ones are larger dampeners in the head, stronger gear train with the taller main gear and counter bearing / third main shaft bearing, and stronger tail hub).

But like most of us mortal types, if you're not stripping gears, punishing head dampeners so they need replacing often, or throwing tail blades, then the new stuff won't change much for you...other than the shorter main shaft looks cool

Note the design changes are there to try and keep-up with the increase in power systems and desired performance pilots want since the Logo 600 was first designed. They are not there to particularly "fix" any original design flaws.

The SX stuff makes the machine an overall a better heli in the long run though. I think there will come a point when the Logo "600SX", will just replace the Logo "600-3D", and all the "SX" stuff will just become the stock configuration (Just my guess. Nothing official from Mikado on any of that).

(-: Dave
dahld is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 12:56 PM   #3
ofaingu
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Israel,Nitzan
Default

Ok understood so what you said are changes that makes my heli last linger but dont change my flight am I correct?
ofaingu is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 01:12 PM   #4
trickybit
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 4,999
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Default

I like orange.
__________________
"When did you say? I've got the over."
trickybit is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 01:43 PM   #5
dahld
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bakersfield, California, USA
Default

@ ofaingu

Yes, that's how I see it (-:

Kyle helped prototype the new head and dampening (more or less just tested it after Mikado designed it, to see if it flew well). What I took away from it is, a good pilot will probably feel more change in flight performance (better or worse), by putting on a different set of blades, than by just changing from the old head to the new (the new head though is definitely not worse)

But the new head will remain consistent in it's performance longer, due to the larger dampeners.

(-: Dave
dahld is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 02:02 PM   #6
sandro12321
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Default

Dave, are they making a 500SX or do we just have to buy the upgrade?
__________________
Logo 500 SE,Logo 600 SX, Trex 450 DFC Pro V2, Compass 7 HV, All Vbared on DX-7
sandro12321 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 07:39 AM   #7
motorcycleguyr1
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: HAWAII
Default

Do you have to use the new main gear or can you use the old ones with the new SX head and counterbering setup? I have probably about 5 old ones and would hate to waste them if I dont have to.
motorcycleguyr1 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 08:49 AM   #8
dahld
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bakersfield, California, USA
Default

@ sandro12321,

I've gotten no wind of a 500SX...but that doesn't mean too much. Sometimes I get advanced info (usually when Kyle's involved in prototyping or testing something). But in the case of a 500SX (due to the commonality of parts between the two helis), I wouldn't necessarily know more than anyone else. And at this point, I've heard nothing.

@ motorcycleguyr1,

There's nothing about the new SX parts (head or CB / third bearing), that "requires" the new main gear. The old main gear is fully compatible with any of the new SX stuff (same auto-rotation one-way bearing is used with the new main gear).

(-: Dave
dahld is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 09:28 AM   #9
sandro12321
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Default

Thanks dave, I'll just buy the upgrades. Is there a big difference in the new tails flight behavior, or is it just "beefier"
__________________
Logo 500 SE,Logo 600 SX, Trex 450 DFC Pro V2, Compass 7 HV, All Vbared on DX-7
sandro12321 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 07:08 PM   #10
dahld
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bakersfield, California, USA
Default

Just beefier. The original design handled 95mm tail blades no problem, but was kinda sketchy with 105's when running over 1800-1900 head speeds (part of the reason for the head speed limitation on the Logo 600SE...which uses 105's).

(-: dave
dahld is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 11:18 PM   #11
JohnDoe.
Registered Users
 
Posts: 970
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Laguna Hills/ San diego
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahld View Post
Just beefier. The original design handled 95mm tail blades no problem, but was kinda sketchy with 105's when running over 1800-1900 head speeds (part of the reason for the head speed limitation on the Logo 600SE...which uses 105's).

(-: dave
Great info Dave so with that said what would be a safe head speed for the 600se now ?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnDoe. is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 12:18 PM   #12
prototype3a
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,483
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Christiansburg, VA, USA
Default

I had heard that the new counterbearing was required when using the new shorter SX mast...
__________________
JR X9503 2.4 [H] -- Gaui x7 -- Logo600-3D -- Logo500 UltraLight -- Lepton EX ceiling fan -- MA Furion 450 custom FBL
prototype3a is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 02:22 PM   #13
trickybit
HF MR Support
 
Posts: 4,999
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prototype3a View Post
I had heard that the new counterbearing was required when using the new shorter SX mast...
curious to know how those would relate.
__________________
"When did you say? I've got the over."
trickybit is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 03:33 PM   #14
prototype3a
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,483
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Christiansburg, VA, USA
Default

New shorter mast may not have the groove for the cir-clip? I don't know myself which is why I asked.
__________________
JR X9503 2.4 [H] -- Gaui x7 -- Logo600-3D -- Logo500 UltraLight -- Lepton EX ceiling fan -- MA Furion 450 custom FBL
prototype3a is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 04:26 PM   #15
dahld
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bakersfield, California, USA
Default

@ JohnDoe,

Q: "...what would be a safe head speed for the 600se now ?"

The head speed limitation on the "SE" was originally established due to a variety of factors:

The original Logo 600 head and dampening design was never intended to run the larger 693 disc.

The larger disc puts additional stress on the power train (which it was never originally designed for).

As discussed, the original 600's tail hub was not designed to swing "700 class" tail blades at high head speeds.

Everything else about the Logo 600 (main blade grip size, swash plate size, frame stiffness, main shaft and feathering shaft sizes, tail blade grip size, tail shaft size etc. (get the picture), was never originally designed for "700 class" disc size and the current trend to run 2000+ head speeds, and to beat on the machines as hard as possible.

All this is why Mikado placed the 1800 head speed limit on the "SE", and thus its always been kind-of a "700 lite", never able to be a true hard core 700.

So to get back to your question, just changing one thing (like the tail hub), doesn't make too much difference in what Mikado is going to say about the max head speed limit on the "SE". Adding to an "SE" the new "SX" head, taller main gear and pinion, and the tail hub, will make the "SE" a little more robust for sure.

But it still won't be a true 700, capable of a regular diet of 2000+ head speeds and the abuse aggressive 3D pilots can dish out these days.

And Mikado has yet to (and who knows if they ever will) officially sanction the "SX" new shorter main shaft with the larger "SE" disc. Longer blades and shorter main shafts increase the chances of boom strikes. At this point some are already trying it, but they are on their own.

So at this point, as it's always been and apparently still is, going over 1800 with the "SE" is on the pilot, and not Mikado.

(-: Dave
dahld is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:50 PM   #16
mahbouni
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Default

Dave, just out of curiousity, if Edge did some 653mm blades, how well do you think the 600SE would hold up for hard 3D?
__________________
Logo 700 XXtreme - JR Forza 700 - Logo 600SX - Logo 550SX - Logo 480 XXtreme - LA Sniper2 - Protos - Mini Protos
mahbouni is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 09:39 PM   #17
dahld
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bakersfield, California, USA
Default

Possibly pretty good I'd think. I mean, the standard Logo 600-3D can run 640's stock, so 653's, slightly toned down over "hard 3D" 600-3D head speeds, might workout??

(-: Dave
dahld is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 03:48 AM   #18
mahbouni
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahld View Post
Possibly pretty good I'd think. I mean, the standard Logo 600-3D can run 640's stock, so 653's, slightly toned down over "hard 3D" 600-3D head speeds, might workout??

(-: Dave
C'mon ReadyHeli, you know what you need to do
__________________
Logo 700 XXtreme - JR Forza 700 - Logo 600SX - Logo 550SX - Logo 480 XXtreme - LA Sniper2 - Protos - Mini Protos
mahbouni is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 07:44 AM   #19
MarkH
Registered Users
 
Posts: 717
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prototype3a View Post
I had heard that the new counterbearing was required when using the new shorter SX mast...
It is. Although the new shaft is shorter, the distance from the hole the pin for the tail drive pulley goes through and the c-clip is longer. If you install the tail pulley and main gear, there is still about 1/4" left to the c-clip groove. So unless you want to add a bunch of washer, you need to use the new counterbearing unit.

I just converted my 3D over to the SX. The only issue I had was some missing screws. The washout arms now attach to the head block using m3x20 screws. These also double for tightening the block to the main shaft. The existing screws are m3x14. I had some spares so it was not an issue.
__________________
Logo 690SX
MarvelCraft B-407/Logo 600 mechanics
Vario EC-135 current project
MarkH is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:53 AM   #20
CyprusFlyer
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,094
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pissouri, Cyprus
Default

Funny thing that, I wasted an hour thinking I had misplaced that pair of M20x3 screws! Cut down some shanked 25mm bolts, looking good.

May need a fresh look at my setup tomorrow, the linkage geometry is not working out. 29mm recommended for the blade grip control rods, nowhere near zero pitch with existing 600 servo rods. Lengthened the servo rods, only worry is 4 to 5mm thread in plastic, new ball joints used so should be OK.

Looks like 40mm rods instead of 30 mm would be better suited for servos. Picture of the upgrade kit shows 3 extra rods, never received those!

Also looking at the washout arm geometry, seems to confirm the swash needs to be a bit higher than my existing setup.
__________________
LOGO 500SE & 600SE & 600SX
Synergy E7 -
N7 - N5C
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzTDR
Alun
CyprusFlyer is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com