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Old 02-02-2013, 02:28 AM   #461
Atomic Skull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cipioh View Post
I haven't completed the swash leveling and full setup yet... But my videos #13 and #14 go into detail of setting up the servo centering (subtrim) in the Robird software. You can YouTube search for "cpo heli" or go to the build thread in my signature block. It's a different heli, but the process is the same. I set my servos before mounting, however. Btw... Video #12 goes into transmitter setup too.
Those videos are out of date in places, the setup program was changed quite a bit since those were made. For example the subtrim was moved into the collective setup menu.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:35 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by gothicbunny View Post
The swash servo limit in step 7 is for making sure you have a level swash at min and max collective.


Correct procedure is to make sure the servo to swash links don't bind or jam when the servos are moved to the extremes on page 7. On a helicopter with direct servo to swash links the only one likely to jam at extremes is the elevator servo. On this page you are only worrying about the servo links. The goal is to get the maximum servo travel range possible without regard to whether the swash is level. You are not worrying about head binding on this page, only servo link binding. Once that is done move to page 8 and check to make sure that the head doesn't bind at full cyclic inputs when is is turned (e.g. radius arms bumping the swashplate) If somthing binds or touches as the head turns then reduce the cyclic ring until it doesn't. Check at min max and center collective for binding and reduce the cyclic ring if needed. Failure to do this procedure correctly can result in the head throwing a link during extreme collective inputs.

EDIT: I thought of a clearer explanation of the difference between page 7 and page 8

http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=468

Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicbunny View Post
In the setup tab, when you click save it is saving those to the G31. Under the performance tab the changes are saved automatically when you make an adjustment and will show "Saved" in the status bar.
Save doesn't do anything yet. It will eventually allow you do save configs to a file but for now it's just a non functional placeholder. The settings for the current page are saved when you move to the next page in the setup menu. On the performance menu the current performance settings are auto saved whenever you make a change to anything on the page.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:53 AM   #463
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Default Re: Robird G31 rollup

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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Those videos are out of date in places, the setup program was changed quite a bit since those were made. For example the subtrim was moved into the collective setup menu.
My videos were made last week. They are demonstrating the latest version software. I think you are thinking of someone else's videos.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:51 AM   #464
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Atomic: Thanks for the info and help. Your explanations have been great.

I have hovered now and am amazed at how controllable the heli was right out of the box so to speak. I setup my DX8 D/R (3 positions actually) at 60% on A/E in normal mode, with 15% expo in the Radio. No expo in the G31 Performance tab on cyclic. There is rudder expo though in the G31, should that be gone if I'm doing expo on the Radio?

It seems like now I'm in the "take the laptop to the field" mode, fly, connect the USB, tweak, disconnect the USB and fly again.

Can I leave the heli powered up in HOLD mode while changing the G31, and then just go off HOLD and fly again or should I cycle the main power source?
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #465
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Default Robird G31 rollup

It is probably safest to disconnect your battery before plugging in your laptop but isn't necessary.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:12 PM   #466
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I have now flown a few packs through, and the cyclic seems more sensitive than I'm used to.

I can fool around with the settings in the G31 or change TX values or both.

I have 60% and 15% expo on my TX, feeding cyclic commands to the G31. The G31 perf.tab shows EleRate and AilRate at 19. Agility at 1450. No expo here. Should I lower the 19 or 1450 values or both?

How does the L & R piroBrake work with the TX gain values for Rate and Hold mode? Does changing the gain in the TX do the same thing as the values entered here to control how "hard" a pirouette stops?
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:16 PM   #467
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Default Re: Robird G31 rollup

Ive flown two batteries on my 300x with g31. In fast forward flight the heli seems to want to porpoise with little elevator movements. What setting do I need to look at to change this? I know on my ar7200bx I go into the parameters menu and change the pitching up behavior. Im very happy with how well this unit is working just need to learn the fine tuning of it. Wish there was a guide that talked about adjusting the performace menu and what each setting does. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Justin

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Old 02-02-2013, 07:48 PM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade_crasher View Post
Atomic: Thanks for the info and help. Your explanations have been great.
I thought of a clearer explanation of the difference between page 7 and 8 earlier today. On page 7 you are setting servo travel endpoints and on page 8 you are setting cyclic limits. The sliders on page 7 only affect endpoints not the maximum amount of cyclic (i.e. how much the swash tilts in response to the cyclic stick) While lowering the endpoints might help eliminate binding at min/max collective it will do nothing to eliminate cyclic binding at center stick.

Also as far as I know setting the sliders to higher than %100 doesn't do anything (might be different with analog servos)
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:56 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by blade_crasher View Post
There is rudder expo though in the G31, should that be gone if I'm doing expo on the Radio?
If you are using expo or dual rates on the radio then there should be no expo on the gyro. Otherwise you'll have expo stacking on top of expo and DR cutting off the end of the expo curves on the gyro and it will make the control input curves all wonky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade_crasher View Post
Can I leave the heli powered up in HOLD mode while changing the G31, and then just go off HOLD and fly again or should I cycle the main power source?
I don't think it makes any difference but it can't hurt either.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:28 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade_crasher View Post
I have now flown a few packs through, and the cyclic seems more sensitive than I'm used to.

I can fool around with the settings in the G31 or change TX values or both.

I have 60% and 15% expo on my TX, feeding cyclic commands to the G31. The G31 perf.tab shows EleRate and AilRate at 19. Agility at 1450. No expo here. Should I lower the 19 or 1450 values or both?

How does the L & R piroBrake work with the TX gain values for Rate and Hold mode? Does changing the gain in the TX do the same thing as the values entered here to control how "hard" a pirouette stops?
If the pirostop "bounces" lower the brake in that direction. If it overshoots the stop slightly and returns increase it. Generally you need left brake lower than right brake. On my 500 I have left brake set to 3 and right brake set to 6. Lowering the CCW p-gain and increasing the CW p-gain by a small amount can also help eliminate CCW bounce and CW overshoot.

Here's my performance settings for sport flying. Gyro gain is set to 82.5% (real value on the gyro is 65%) Gain pots on the gyro are set to 1 tick on the dial below maximum (how high you can set these depend on your servos) DR on the radio is set to 100% for normal and 85% for reduced rate. I have no rudder DR or expo on the radio.



Vibe log should look something like this on a smooth running electric. Head vibes were slightly lower before I switched from generic blades to the stiffer slightly more tip weighted RJX FBL blades. It's definitely more stable and less twitchy with the FBL blades.

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Old 02-02-2013, 09:34 PM   #471
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Default Re: Robird G31 rollup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtspawn View Post
Ive flown two batteries on my 300x with g31. In fast forward flight the heli seems to want to porpoise with little elevator movements. What setting do I need to look at to change this? I know on my ar7200bx I go into the parameters menu and change the pitching up behavior. Im very happy with how well this unit is working just need to learn the fine tuning of it. Wish there was a guide that talked about adjusting the performace menu and what each setting does. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Justin

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk HD
The stop function under the elevator agility is what helps with the pitching up. If you hover over the tab it will explain it a little better.

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Old 02-02-2013, 10:43 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by LawnDartHeli View Post
The stop function under the elevator agility is what helps with the pitching up. If you hover over the tab it will explain it a little better.

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Actually that affects cyclic response. It has a similar effect to moving the flybar weights on a flybar helicopter. The higher the value the more twitchy it is.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:53 AM   #473
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Atomic:

As I scroll through the 6 second chunks I have some peaks where I see 800 or so and red bars, but most of it looks like this image. Could these red (and orange) peaks be when I'm flying and working the heli more than just hovering? Do you pick a time when you are flying, say near the end of the flight, where you hover and are not stressing the machine, so that you can get a reading when you know what the heli was doing for the vib analysis?

I'm running a lower HS on my 450 since I'm using 350mm woodie blades.

When you say 82.5% gyro gain (which is 65% actually) and you speaking of how you have your TX gyro input gains set for the tail? I'm thinking this is something like servo travel adj is set for 125 max, and 82.5% of that = 65% of the total 125. Am I completely lost?

Then the Ele & Ail gains are managed on the G31 itself, using the pots. Where you are 1 "tick" CW away from the max CCW that you can turn the pots. Do I understand you correctly?
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:58 AM   #474
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Default Re: Robird G31 rollup

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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Actually that affects cyclic response. It has a similar effect to moving the flybar weights on a flybar helicopter. The higher the value the more twitchy it is.
My bad, Pitch=>Elevator setting..not Stop.

Its been a minute since I actually hooked mine up to a pc. I remembered seeing the pitching up issue addressed in the tabs.

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Old 02-03-2013, 02:42 AM   #475
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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Also as far as I know setting the sliders to higher than %100 doesn't do anything (might be different with analog servos)
It does matter no matter what servos are being used. Those with shorter servo arms will get these values above 100% for the servos to reach their travel limits before binding. G31 needs to know the travel limits of each cyclic servos so it can make full use of the travel range. The cyclic ring setting on the next page will be affected by these limits if they are not set properly. Programmed cyclic ring values at max and min collective will not be able to achieve if the servo limits are set too short.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:39 PM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade_crasher View Post
Atomic:

As I scroll through the 6 second chunks I have some peaks where I see 800 or so and red bars, but most of it looks like this image. Could these red (and orange) peaks be when I'm flying and working the heli more than just hovering? Do you pick a time when you are flying, say near the end of the flight, where you hover and are not stressing the machine, so that you can get a reading when you know what the heli was doing for the vib analysis?
My vibes never get that high but yes vibes will go up when you are doing more than just hovering.


Quote:
When you say 82.5% gyro gain (which is 65% actually) and you speaking of how you have your TX gyro input gains set for the tail?
Yes I mean tail gyro gain on the radio.

Quote:
Then the Ele & Ail gains are managed on the G31 itself, using the pots. Where you are 1 "tick" CW away from the max CCW that you can turn the pots. Do I understand you correctly?
It's the other way around, turning the pots CW increases the gain amount. By one "tick" I mean the little printed dots around the pot. I have it one dot away from the maximum amount. How high you can set the gyro gains will depend on your servos. Too much and you get effects like cyclic wobble or the helicopter leans in a piro.

Also if your gyro came with the same thick grey foam pads that the ALZRC version comes with then don't use them. Use a ZYX mounting pad or scotch outdoor mounting tape (the clear gel stuff with the red peel off plastic) instead. I tried to use the foam pads that came with mine and the helicopter performed so badly I thought something was wrong with the gyro. Used the outdoor mounting tape someone recommended on the Robird thread on RCG and it worked perfectly.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:46 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by PhantomGT View Post
It does matter no matter what servos are being used. Those with shorter servo arms will get these values above 100% for the servos to reach their travel limits before binding. G31 needs to know the travel limits of each cyclic servos so it can make full use of the travel range. The cyclic ring setting on the next page will be affected by these limits if they are not set properly. Programmed cyclic ring values at max and min collective will not be able to achieve if the servo limits are set too short.
I've tried setting the values above 100% on page 7 and it didn't affect travel range at all. Only the 50%-100% range on the slider has any effect with my servos. This isn't really a problem because I wouldn't get any more travel due to mechanical limits anyway. Any higher and the elevator would bind at the top of the anti rotation bracket, any lower and the servo horn would hit the maingear.


One reason it needs as much travel range as mechanically possible is that on a 120 degree swashplate the gyro compensates for elevator / aeliron interaction. You can see this when you move the collective around and the center ball on the swash stays level like a 140 degree swashplate would instead of jumping up and down like a 120 degree swash does on a flybar helicopter. In order to do that it needs more travel "headroom" than just the sum of the collective and cyclic pitch range.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:57 PM   #478
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Default Re: Robird G31 rollup

Had several good flights on the G31 ship again today. Bigger field allowed for some full speed FFF. This thing is like a slot car, no bobbles..no pitching. Got to do some fast backwards inverted stuff, never once felt mushy. Still very pleased with the performance.

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Old 02-03-2013, 08:20 PM   #479
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Default DX8 users only

Are there any DX8 users using their TX to control the EleGain and AilGain values on the G31?

What ver. of the DX8 firmware are you on? How did you setup your TX?

I'm having trouble, and the DX8 thread suggests a firmware update to 2.06, which is a real pain if that is what is needed with all the other models I have in the TX.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:04 PM   #480
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Atomic: At least I have the mounting tape correct. I used the red 3M stuff, not the soft tape one uses with a Quark or 750 type tail gyro.

Cold and windy in the NW today, no flying..

bc
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