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Old 12-21-2012, 06:15 AM   #41
lperagallo
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Originally Posted by brw0513 View Post
Just wondering if it's feasible for the heli community to help out with the cost of FCC testing these RSAT2 Rxs?

Just an idea, but how many people would it take at a $50 donation to get FCC testing done? Maybe those contributors could get a 5-10% discount on purchases of Jeti equipment until they recoup their initial outlay.

Possible?
What would you propose to do if it doesn't pass certification? I, for one prefer to have the option of having traditional individual servo output and PPM output based on configuration. I also don't understand why the R5 doesn't meet the requirements. It is small and light and full range so it should be fine. I don't hang the receiver off the side of my helis so I don't care what it looks like as long as it functions. I protect my receivers under the canopy within the frame. Call me crazy, but I don't really understand the big deal people are making

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Old 12-21-2012, 07:15 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by lperagallo View Post
What would you propose to do if it doesn't pass certification? I, for one prefer to have the option of having traditional individual servo output and PPM output based on configuration. I also don't understand why the R5 doesn't meet the requirements. It is small and light and full range so it should be fine. I don't hang the receiver off the side of my helis so I don't care what it looks like as long as it functions. I protect my receivers under the canopy within the frame. Call me crazy, but I don't really understand the big deal people are making

Lou




You aren't crazy, but there are a few things that you should understand.
  1. The servo outputs are useless to us. That is a feature that is falling on deaf ears. I have two receivers that came with my DX8 and a JR 11X transmitters. They are both collecting dust. I only use the satellites which attach directly to my FBL controller.
  2. Many of us really care a lot about how something looks. When I built my TDR, I actually cooked my gears in black dye so they would look better. I got a servo crimping tool kit so I could create perfect servo wire lengths. I ordered custom sized satellite cables. I used wire sheathing to very neatly route the wires. I ordered a large heat sink for my ESC and acid washed the color off of it so it would match better. Here is a blog article detailing all of this.
  3. This is not about the money
  4. This is not about the functionality
  5. This is simply about the aesthetics

However, you have good reason to think the way you do based on the competition.
  • Futaba users have been selling a small receiver that talks S.Bus to FBL controllers for years. In addition they have very few receiver options that support telemetry which currently requires a larger receiver.
  • Spektrum users have to strap a TM1000 to their helis to get telemetry.
  • JR users have to strap a full receiver and satellites to get telemetry.
Compared to them, the Jeti solution with a receiver is just as good as Futaba's and better then Spektrum's and JR's.

So you aren't crazy wondering why this isn't good enough.

The problem is that Jeti offers something the other guys don't, and it seems like a neater solution so people want it.

If the RSAT2 didn't exist, everyone would be happy right now, but it does and we have been told we can't have it. Unfortunately for many that just makes them want it more.

A lot of the guys who are buying DS-16's own nicer exotic helis and are used to special ordering parts from Germany or having parts custom made all around the world. I ordered a heatsink from Italy and NACA ducts from Germany.


I think the important thing is that there is mutual respect about this.

If you can understand why we look at this issue differently from you and care about this, and we can understand that the financial implications of this are such that you need to recover 10's of thousands of dollars and lots of time and effort to get Jeti to the US, we would at least have an understanding.

We will all benefit if this is a success in the US. We will have a stable stream of equipment and support and you will be profitable.

I think that we should table this matter until after the DS-16 is released and there has been some time for Jeti to get established in the US.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:28 AM   #43
lperagallo
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Originally Posted by mkovalcson View Post
You aren't crazy, but there are a few things that you should understand.
  1. The servo outputs are useless to us. That is a feature that is falling on deaf ears. I have two receivers that came with my DX8 and a JR 11X transmitters. They are both collecting dust. I only use the satellites which attach directly to my FBL controller.
  2. Many of us really care a lot about how something looks. When I built my TDR, I actually cooked my gears in black dye so they would look better. I got a servo crimping tool kit so I could create perfect servo wire lengths. I ordered custom sized satellite cables. I used wire sheathing to very neatly route the wires. I ordered a large heat sink for my ESC and acid washed the color off of it so it would match better. Here is a blog article detailing all of this.
  3. This is not about the money
  4. This is not about the functionality
  5. This is simply about the aesthetics

However, you have good reason to think the way you do based on the competition.
  • Futaba users have been selling a small receiver that talks S.Bus to FBL controllers for years. In addition they have very few receiver options that support telemetry which currently requires a larger receiver.
  • Spektrum users have to strap a TM1000 to their helis to get telemetry.
  • JR users have to strap a full receiver and satellites to get telemetry.
Compared to them, the Jeti solution with a receiver is just as good as Futaba's and better then Spektrum's and JR's.

So you aren't crazy wondering why this isn't good enough.

The problem is that Jeti offers something the other guys don't, and it seems like a neater solution so people want it.

If the RSAT2 didn't exist, everyone would be happy right now, but it does and we have been told they can't have it. Unfortunately for many that just makes them want it more.

A lot of the guys who are buying DS-16's own nicer exotic helis and are used to special ordering parts from Germany or having parts custom made all around the world. I ordered a heatsink from Italy and NACA ducts from Germany.
I don't know whether you might consider my two Bergen Magnum 44 Wren powered turbines exotic, but for me function is what is important. I try to minimize the risk of failure of any component and will put components wrapped in ugly foam to protect it. You are correct that I really don't care what it looks like under the canopy as long as it is safe, functional and predictable. Pretty doesn't make it perform any better.

Lou
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:33 AM   #44
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Hi Lou,

Not trying to make a big deal out of this - I was only trying to be helpful.

And I am a big believer in form over over function, but seems to me Jeti has a very elegant FBL solution in the RSAT2.

What is the likelihood that the RSAT2 would not pass FCC testing?

Maybe this is worth a poll question for potential adopters?

To have or not to have the RSAT2 is no deal breaker for me, but IMO there is a good chance you will get greater market penetration of the Jeti line if the RSAT2 becomes available.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:53 AM   #45
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I don't know whether you might consider my two Bergen Magnum 44 Wren powered turbines exotic, but for me function is what is important. I try to minimize the risk of failure of any component and will put components wrapped in ugly foam to protect it. You are correct that I really don't care what it looks like under the canopy as long as it is safe, functional and predictable. Pretty doesn't make it perform any better.

Lou
There is no doubt that turbines are exotic, and this is a perfect example of our different priorites. I have absolutely no idea why someone would want a turbine helicopter. I have friends with turbine jets and I think they are very cool to watch, but there is not one thing about a turbine helicopter that attracts me. I don't want anything to do with any liquid fuel of any kind, be that Jet-A, gas, or Nitro fuel. I see it as messy and ugly, and electric as clean and elegant.

We are all driven by different things, and that is great!

I'm completely lost on why a turbine appeals to you. It just doesn't click for me. However I think it is great that people have different priorities.

I just hope that you can understand the same thing applies to things that you don't see any value in, but some of us care about.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:10 PM   #46
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Hey Lou, We all do not have big turbine helis with all kinds of room, or big scale fuses to hide stuff in! Put an esc and an fbl unit on a 250 to 450 heli and even some 500 class helis and try to find room for that standard rx with exposed servo ports and ugly shrink wrap. it is gonna end up in a location that allows easy mounting and location of the antennae with an easy single cable run to the fbl unit and be visible 9.99 times out of 10. The reason spektrum sats are so popular and futaba s-bus rx wich is small enough though I fly spektrum currently. The rsat2 is the solution period. It is small with super efficient cableing and it looks good to boot and has a hard case for some protection!
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:33 PM   #47
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Hey Lou, We all do not have big turbine helis with all kinds of room, or big scale fuses to hide stuff in! Put an esc and an fbl unit on a 250 to 450 heli and even some 500 class helis and try to find room for that standard rx with exposed servo ports and ugly shrink wrap. it is gonna end up in a location that allows easy mounting and location of the antennae with an easy single cable run to the fbl unit and be visible 9.99 times out of 10. The reason spektrum sats are so popular and futaba s-bus rx wich is small enough though I fly spektrum currently. The rsat2 is the solution period. It is small with super efficient cableing and it looks good to boot and has a hard case!

R5L 48mm x 18mm x 6mm, 6 grams

RSAT2 35mm x 23mm x 6 mm, 12 grams

FYI, they are both actually pretty tiny and the R5L is half the weight of the RSAT2

I think I really need to see these things close up before I make anymore comments about how they look. For my little Protos I really don't care what it looks like, since that is a beater and the lower weight is always a good thing


Lou,

Do you have any of the R5L's in stock?
If you do, I'll order one to see what it looks like in person.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:41 PM   #48
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6 grams is nothing LOL, but that 13mm longer dimension of the r5 is an issue IMO. Plus I will take the extra 6 grams extra weight with the shorter length of the rsat2 and have no exposed servo ports and a hard case for protection along with it anytime. ,

PS. r5L is not fcc approved yet or the other r5i. Confusion about r5i as it says full range and parkflyers next to it?? Shorter antennae ?? Main body are both same size.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by scott s View Post
Hey Lou, We all do not have big turbine helis with all kinds of room, or big scale fuses to hide stuff in! Put an esc and an fbl unit on a 250 to 450 heli and even some 500 class helis and try to find room for that standard rx with exposed servo ports and ugly shrink wrap. it is gonna end up in a location that allows easy mounting and location of the antennae with an easy single cable run to the fbl unit and be visible 9.99 times out of 10. The reason spektrum sats are so popular and futaba s-bus rx wich is small enough though I fly spektrum currently. The rsat2 is the solution period. It is small with super efficient cableing and it looks good to boot and has a hard case for some protection!
+1...the manufacturers of fbl systems took in consideration that space is limited on rc helis and therefore have incorporated the technology their systems work with small satellite recievers. The only exception I think is Futaba because they dont use satellites in their radio system but do offer S. Bus which can utilize a small (key word) receiver. Now here it is Jeti produces a satellite receiver to work with our FBL systems and the FBL manufacturers already have their products set up to work with Jeti. If they did not make a satellite receiver we would not be having this discussion. Now everyone outside the U.S. and Canada who have FBL systems probably use the Jeti satellites vs. full blown receivers so we in the U.S. and Canada would also like to enjoy that option the rest of the world has access to. You can't really blame us for wanting something that has made it easier for us in our field of the hobby. Sattelite receivers have been a big blessing for those of us who indulge in flying FBL systems on our helis.
Now if Jeti USA/Espirit does not see fit to cater to us heli folk in U.S./Canada some people may shy away from the brand (I have my pre-order in so back off, LOL). You may say it has not effected Futaba but Futaba has never produced sattelite receivers so their followers don't expect this but Jeti has made us aware they currently produce a satellite receiver and we see it is being utlized in the rest of the world with FBL systems so yes, we want it to.
If the satellite is never approved it is not a deal breaker but will be a disappointment. Like it was said, we are like children, we want everything.
Look at JR Radios right now. Their new XG series sales to the heli community right now are down because of satellites. Not because their system does not have them but because the FBL systems can't utilize them with the exception of Skookum. When JR stopped using the DSM, DSM2, and DSMX technology and came up with their own, they shot themselves in the foot. We in the heli community who fly FBL love our satellite receivers. Now I know JR is going to remedy this cause they see what is happening and read the forums to know that this has stopped a lot of heli consumers from moving forward to their XG series of radios. That alone is what started me looking around at other brands of radios. I never owned any other system outside of JR and here I am now pre ordering a Jeti Radio. So if you don't think small things like satellite receivers can gain you some business or lose you some business, think twice. But even knowing JR will eventually have their satellites up and going with the FBL community and the XG series seems to be an awesome new series, I think Jeti has up the ante a bit and I am rolling the dice and going with Jeti.
Now if the U.S. does not get the approval to use the satellite receivers then we will have to get used to the idea of using the full size receivers like Futaba users do. With that being said, hopefully the ppm situation is getting worked out so we don't have to use a bunch of cables.

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Old 12-27-2012, 09:52 AM   #50
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I agree with almost all the points about the usefullness of satellite recievers.
I just saw the ad for the ds-16 this morning in the latest edition of model aviation, and my very first reaction was "FINALLY" a radio NOT MADE IN CHINA.. high quality bearings, CNC milled aluminum - IM IN! BUT..

right of the batt, i find the rx choices confusing, and the lack of satellite support in the US is a bit annoying. THAT said, can someone break it down a bit better.

So lets say im a vbar user, what full range jeti rx will work on a
a) 450 size heli
b) 600 size heli

I assume all 3 servo output cables will be required for connection to the vbar ?

Lets add to this the use of the phoenix sim. Do i need to modify the transmitter to make it work "WIRED" with the simulator. Lets say i dont really wanna spend the money on another rx and use simstick. Just want to keep it simple, connect wire, hook up sim and not drill any holes. Is this possible ?
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:27 AM   #51
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I agree with almost all the points about the usefullness of satellite recievers.
I just saw the ad for the ds-16 this morning in the latest edition of model aviation, and my very first reaction was "FINALLY" a radio NOT MADE IN CHINA.. high quality bearings, CNC milled aluminum - IM IN! BUT..

right of the batt, i find the rx choices confusing, and the lack of satellite support in the US is a bit annoying. THAT said, can someone break it down a bit better.

So lets say im a vbar user, what full range jeti rx will work on a
a) 450 size heli
b) 600 size heli

I assume all 3 servo output cables will be required for connection to the vbar ?

Lets add to this the use of the phoenix sim. Do i need to modify the transmitter to make it work "WIRED" with the simulator. Lets say i dont really wanna spend the money on another rx and use simstick. Just want to keep it simple, connect wire, hook up sim and not drill any holes. Is this possible ?
My recommendation for both helis are the EX R6L full range receivers. You will use a single wire to your Vbar using PPM output. The product is found here: http://circlecityhelis.com/jeti-dupl...er-w-telemetry

I are working on multiple Phoenix sim options. One is the Simstream. I am working with Modelguard to make sure everything works. If you don't want that option, you can use the PPM output from the radio to make a cable to a plug. You don't have to drill your case if you don't want, you can remove a switch in the radio and use that hole to insert the PPM plug. I am also working on creating a small kit to make this work. I will post more on that after I have tested it and verified everything works as advertised. There is a poll to see how many are looking for the wireless connection as this is the cleanest way to sim, no wires.

Lou
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:37 PM   #52
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My recommendation for both helis are the EX R6L full range receivers. You will use a single wire to your Vbar using PPM output. The product is found here: http://circlecityhelis.com/jeti-dupl...er-w-telemetry

I are working on multiple Phoenix sim options. One is the Simstream. I am working with Modelguard to make sure everything works. If you don't want that option, you can use the PPM output from the radio to make a cable to a plug. You don't have to drill your case if you don't want, you can remove a switch in the radio and use that hole to insert the PPM plug. I am also working on creating a small kit to make this work. I will post more on that after I have tested it and verified everything works as advertised. There is a poll to see how many are looking for the wireless connection as this is the cleanest way to sim, no wires.

Lou
Any updates ? Also. on a heli (ex- Sab goblin) with full enclosed canopy, do the RX wires need to be exposed outside the aircraft ? what about carbon frames etc ?

thanks.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:53 PM   #53
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nevermind from the manual (The active part of the antenna should not be placed close to metal
parts. If your model has a carbon fuselage it is very important to
place the active antenna ends outside the fuselage.)
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:00 PM   #54
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What we have been doing is to use shrink tube to take the non active part of the antenna(not the yellow tips) and place that along the frame, then have the yellow tips outside the frame. Behind the canopy is fine. What is nice with the Jeti is that you can always get an antenna strength reading. Even if it hits zero you have some range left. Just keep it 1 or above and you shouldn't have any issues.

Make sure on your first flight you do a range check by flying around slowly and see what you get for antenna strength. Sort of like the old range check where you walked away from the model.

Lou
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