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Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme Helicopters Discussion


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Old 11-16-2012, 12:39 AM   #1
zguy
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Default OK...I'll ask the 14S question!

How does the 700 do on 14S?
The supplied components in the combo kit look like they'd support a 14S battery for an aggressive (2100-2200rpm) set up giving 18-15% headroom for the gov.

Come on...Who's already tried it?!??
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:20 AM   #2
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For sure 14 s will work, im a believer of higher volts lower amps, however the difference in performance between 12 and 14 is negligible, the gains will be lower temps longer lipo life.
Im slowly converting my speed machines to 14 s where constant draw is much higher than 3 d but lighter 7 s lipos are scarce so you dont eant to fly the 700 with 5000 packs. 4400 yes. As soon i get my hands on some good 4400 7!s packs ill convert for sure
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:21 AM   #3
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Thats exactly my plan to go 14S right off the bat. These GenAce 4400 7S only weight 25grams more than a 5000 6S. I think the Scorpion Ultimate 520kv motor is alittle high of a kv for 14S hence why i got the Pyro 800-480kv motor for it. Im hoping this is gonna be a monster power setup :-) Now i just need RH to ship my L700 hopefully sooner than later.

Tony
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:37 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by tonyh86 View Post
Attachment 366598

Thats exactly my plan to go 14S right off the bat. These GenAce 4400 7S only weight 25grams more than a 5000 6S. I think the Scorpion Ultimate 520kv motor is alittle high of a kv for 14S hence why i got the Pyro 800-480kv motor for it. Im hoping this is gonna be a monster power setup :-) Now i just need RH to ship my L700 hopefully sooner than later.

Tony
Now someone with a Pyro 800-48...this is what I want to see
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:54 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Stolla View Post
For sure 14 s will work, im a believer of higher volts lower amps, however the difference in performance between 12 and 14 is negligible, the gains will be lower temps longer lipo life.
Im slowly converting my speed machines to 14 s where constant draw is much higher than 3 d but lighter 7 s lipos are scarce so you dont eant to fly the 700 with 5000 packs. 4400 yes. As soon i get my hands on some good 4400 7!s packs ill convert for sure
A 4s and 3s wired in series will work also
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:18 PM   #6
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Exactly what i thought, Even more difficult to get in the correct size, im on another planet remember. With lipo ban im stuck with tp 6 s till further notice.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:18 AM   #7
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Tony what's exact weight of the 4400 7s packs you show?

You're also going to need a 16 tooth pinion to get within range with that 480kv motor and 14s, that pinion does not exist yet to my knowledge.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:22 AM   #8
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Thats exactly my plan to go 14S right off the bat. These GenAce 4400 7S only weight 25grams more than a 5000 6S. I think the Scorpion Ultimate 520kv motor is alittle high of a kv for 14S hence why i got the Pyro 800-480kv motor for it. Im hoping this is gonna be a monster power setup :-) Now i just need RH to ship my L700 hopefully sooner than later.

Tony
Looking forward to hear how this performs. I'll bet it will be great
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:05 AM   #9
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checkout the gens ace 4600mah cells, very light
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:20 AM   #10
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Tony what's exact weight of the 4400 7s packs you show?

You're also going to need a 16 tooth pinion to get within range with that 480kv motor and 14s, that pinion does not exist yet to my knowledge.
Not sure of the exact weight my gram scale only goes to 500g but its listed at 826g

According to Mel's HS Calc ill be able to hit 2130 at the top with the best gov performance, im planning on setting up a 1900,2000&2100 rpm
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:18 PM   #11
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Alright well 16t with 14s - 480kv is within 5% of what 520kv is with 12s. For sure keep us posted. What's weight of that pyro? I'm interested in comparing total extra weight vs existing stock.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:39 PM   #12
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With the stock set-up and fully charged packs my max HS is 2220 rpm, which is lower than expected. Based on this, running at 2050 governed is only 8% headroom.

Multiplying 14/12 x 2220rpm = 2590 rpm.

If running an aggressive 2200rpm HS this would give 15% headroom which is ideal.

I agree a 16T and/or lower Kv motor is best, but would love to hear some real world results from those that already have some 14S packs available for testing.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Alright well 16t with 14s - 480kv is within 5% of what 520kv is with 12s. For sure keep us posted. What's weight of that pyro? I'm interested in comparing total extra weight vs existing stock.
Pyro weighs 489 gram http://www.rc-heli.de/board/showthread.php?t=211293
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:19 AM   #14
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Looking forward to a flight report, I may go the pyro 800-48/gens ace 7s 4400 route as well.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #15
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Stolla, have you tried your Pyro 800 on any of your other birds (other than the Banshee)?
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:48 PM   #16
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Nope havent but contemplating one for l700 although havent even unboxed it yet ( need something under the tree) the 4525 seems to hold its own in my mates one although he doesnt fly nearly as hard as me so will see as time moves on. If i can get hold of some 7 s lipos i would probaly rewind a 850 for the logo
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:12 AM   #17
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This was posted in another thread, but is better for this discussion:
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Not 14S. Don't have any 7S packs in smaller capacities available to use, and a 14S 5000 pack (same as on the XXtreme 800) would be too heavy.

But, Kyle for a short while played with a 13S 5000mah combination, using Edge 753's powered by a Scorpion 4530-500kv motor. We thought the heavier pack and motor would be offset by the increase in disc area, and hopefully the larger motor would power the whole deal to a higher performance state than the stock set-up (4525-520kv on 12S and 713's).

We had high hopes, but...wrong again. What seemed like on paper to be a possible increase in performance, turned out to be nothing special. The performance was not any better than stock...and things ran hot.

Kyle tried different head speeds, and 1900 on the larger disc seemed to be the best compromise between flight performance, flight times, and temperature of the system. But as I said, even that was nothing special. Higher speeds just ran too hot (the higher the speed, the hotter it ran), and produced unacceptable shorter flights.

It is possible that the 753's with their wider chord was just too much blade for the voltage / motor combo / pinion-gear ratio combination. More experimentation with different cell count and capacities, motor size and kv's, and gear ratios (or a different blade design), might improve things.

But that would take lots of time, lots of various components (some that don't exist), and someone would be footing the bill for all that, so...

At the moment, the stock system is nothing "needing" to be better. Sure, more power (if free from other detriments and compromises), is always a good thing. But more power rarely comes without compromise someplace else.

For now, we're staying with the stock set-up. Kyle's not "experimenting" with anything else at the moment. Just enjoying the machine as is.

(-: Dave
VERY interesting!!

Here's what I'm seeing:
My 100% throttle HS was re-checked and measured 2270 rpm w/ 65C packs right off the charger. This indicates that I have closer to a 500kv motor vs. the specified 520kv. So running at 2050 only gives 9.7% head room at the beginning of flight and is working the batteries too hard.
As in my 1st post, I still believe that simply running 14S on this stock set up will work with a slightly higher HS. 14/12 x 2270=2648 max theoretical HS. Allowing for 20% governor headroom gives a target 2118 rpm HS. 14S 4400 packs would only add 48g, or less than 1% of AUW.

What I had not considered was 13S
13/12 x 2270=2459 max HS. Staying at the current 2050 gives 17% headroom, which is perfect. The 13S 5000 setup should add approx 140g, or approx 2.5% AUW, but will also put 8+% more energy on board.

So the questions (mainly to Dave):
What is your max HS on 12S? (This is to check the motor kv.)
Have you tried the 13S 5000 setup on the stock motor and 713mm blades? At what RPMs?
I'm not surprised the 753's were too much for this setup, but would love to hear a 13S flight report on 713's at ~2100rpm.

Thanks!
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:30 AM   #18
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My 100% throttle HS was re-checked and measured 2270 rpm w/ 65C packs right off the charger. This indicates that I have closer to a 500kv motor vs. the specified 520kv.
you should check kv with no load on the motor and measure rpm and voltage simultaniously. As you noticed blades will already slow it down and the voltage of the battery will sag rapidly immediately after charging.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:58 AM   #19
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This was posted in another thread, but is better for this discussion:


VERY interesting!!

Here's what I'm seeing:
My 100% throttle HS was re-checked and measured 2270 rpm w/ 65C packs right off the charger. This indicates that I have closer to a 500kv motor vs. the specified 520kv. So running at 2050 only gives 9.7% head room at the beginning of flight and is working the batteries too hard.
As in my 1st post, I still believe that simply running 14S on this stock set up will work with a slightly higher HS. 14/12 x 2270=2648 max theoretical HS. Allowing for 20% governor headroom gives a target 2118 rpm HS. 14S 4400 packs would only add 48g, or less than 1% of AUW.

What I had not considered was 13S
13/12 x 2270=2459 max HS. Staying at the current 2050 gives 17% headroom, which is perfect. The 13S 5000 setup should add approx 140g, or approx 2.5% AUW, but will also put 8+% more energy on board.

So the questions (mainly to Dave):
What is your max HS on 12S? (This is to check the motor kv.)
Have you tried the 13S 5000 setup on the stock motor and 713mm blades? At what RPMs?
I'm not surprised the 753's were too much for this setup, but would love to hear a 13S flight report on 713's at ~2100rpm.

Thanks!
What gear ratio do you have entered?
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:29 PM   #20
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What gear ratio do you have entered?
175 main, 17 pinion, 10.29 ratio.
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