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Old 11-20-2012, 10:24 AM   #21
mkovalcson
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My big curiousity point is the hybrid tail.

I assume that having a belted driver to the TT umbrella reduces vibrations and helps the umbrellas survive a crash better.

Since Mikado doesn't have any other TT helis that I'm aware of, I am very curious how this tail works in practice.

Also I assume that there is no grounding strap on the 700 since the belt has such a short run.

Thoughts?
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito View Post
I'm sure I'll love it.

I've been following all the threads regarding the 700. Since some of you have already put the Logo 700 to the test, can you please post your VBar files?

I was surprised from Shawn's rotor gain numbers of 55-58. I can understand that the head dampening is harder, thus the lower numbers. Having a benchmark of what values worked for you will help setting up ours until Mikado improves the software tool tips to include the new 700.

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Where did you see the main gain #'s?
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkovalcson View Post
My big curiousity point is the hybrid tail.

I assume that having a belted driver to the TT umbrella reduces vibrations and helps the umbrellas survive a crash better.

Since Mikado doesn't have any other TT helis that I'm aware of, I am very curious how this tail works in practice.

Also I assume that there is no grounding strap on the 700 since the belt has such a short run.

Thoughts?

I skimmed the manual the other day, looks like the same drive system as the 800. Kinda like the damping on the tail grip idea.

Personally if I wasn't buying a house and broke as a grad student I might actually pick one of these things up to play with. I was very impressed with the machine at the ClubCrash event this summer.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #24
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Mikado determined early-on that a belt drive on this heli would not be the way to go. Belt drives are great in smaller applications, but the size of the 700 XXtreme (able to swing 750 blades stock), and the powerful tail involved, makes a belt drive in the application marginal (at least Mikado thinks so). Otherwise, they would have made it a belt driven tail from the beginning (would have cost a lot less to do so as well).

But the problem (weak point) with pure tube drives is the point of the gear ratio speed-up (the small gear's interface with the larger main gear). This is the point where all the forces are focused, and there is a huge mechanical disadvantage for the smaller gear (some systems strip just by getting the tail blades caught in the grass).

Mikado solved all this by making the drive system a hybrid. A belt drive is used at the point of the gear ratio speed-up (the pulleys are large with much contact between the belt and the gear teeth), then a tube drive on back, where the gear ratios are all 1:1 (easy), and the 1:1 gears are large as well.

Adding the hybrid belt reduces vibration, is quieter, and although it sounds too much like a sales pitch, the system (in its application), is for all intense and purposes, is unstrippable. The result is a maintenance free, incredibly tough tail drive system.

An example of this is the fact that Kyle flew and crashed (hard more than once) three Logo 700's in all of 2012, and NEVER stripped-out a tail drive, or had to replace a belt. Also note he dragged the tail rotor during his victory flight on the asphalt at the 3D Masters, grinding down the tail blades by about 50%, and the tail drive was not effected at all. Nothing in the drive system was damaged as a result.

Hope all that helps explain the unusual drive system, and why Mikado centered on the design.

(-: Dave
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:27 AM   #25
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That is exactly the type of explaination I was hoping for.

It sounds like a good working solution.

With the Diabolo there was a belt slap issue initially requiring a toilet paper roll insert, but I think they have that resolved. I'm not sure about static issues, however their owners seem very happy with them.

With the TDR the solution is a large delrin castle gear going to a smaller but very strong SS umbrella, so the strength issue is not a problem. I've smashed mine hard and never stripped anything but a main or intermediate gear. This is also a zero maintenance tail. Once again most TDR owners are very happy with them.

One issue that people have run into with both has to do with swinging larger blades, like a TDR extended to 800mm or a Diabolo running 750mm blades.

In both cases there were two casualties. One 4mm bolts would bend, so now the Diabolo has 5mm main grip bolts. The other issue was the thrust bearings.

What is the size are the thrust bearings on the Logo 700 ?
I guess the bear and race hardness are just as important.

How fast does Mikado say it can be run with 750mm blades?

The one thing that you can guarantee. If the drive train can handle "anything" than people will try to run this with 10-15kW motors and try to spin 750mm blades 2500 rpm.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Where did you see the main gain #'s?
OICU812 posted them in his review thread. Also Jesse Kavros states his similar gain numbers in the 700 XXtreme sub-forum here on helifreak. Its at the top of the page in the Mikado forum.

http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=467802
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:54 AM   #27
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Just curious, how did the Compass 7HV do in your tests?

Cheers,
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Just curious, how did the Compass 7HV do in your tests?

Cheers,
Andy
Sorry I do not wish to as said get into thoughts or ratings of other machines in this thread. Doing so takes it too far off topic and is non constructive as some are too brand loyal. If you wish to discuss particulars certainly PM me if you wish and we can discuss anything you like.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
Sorry I do not wish to as said get into thoughts or ratings of other machines in this thread. Doing so takes it too far off topic and is non constructive as some are too brand loyal. If you wish to discuss particulars certainly PM me if you wish and we can discuss anything you like.
There is a lot of wisdom to this.

I think a lot of the 700 class helis have interesting or special attributes that may or may not be important to different people, but past that people tend to defend what they own and it gets ugly fast.

Personally I think competition is a GREAT thing! As the bar is raised we all win!
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:40 PM   #30
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Exactly.

Well I can say that how it flies is most important, and to expand that ..

1.) linear movement and feel
2.) solid tail ratio and performance
2.) responsive and predictable cyclic

In regards to build and construction:

1.) quality parts and precision fitment
2.) drive train adequate for powerfull systems now and future
3.) no need for upgrades and revisions

This model checks all those boxes. Of all others I listed for helis many don't make all those marks some none of them.

Be well.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:27 PM   #31
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I just want to add something here, it is a heavy 700 so keep it in mind, one reason why i keep my e 720
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:11 PM   #32
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Stolla,
I have a TDR as well and the Logo 700 flies just as light as the TDR. HONEST man. I am not sales pitching anyone. I made it public about weight. I gave Dave a hard time about weight. It DOES NOT fly heavy man. It spanks a Raptor.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:11 AM   #33
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Spank a raptor, now how do you know?, its the pilot doing the spanking not the heli, ive not flown my 700 yet but saw my friends one flying, you can see its heavier and slower through manouvres, i can feel weight difference between all my helis, if you say your logo flies as light as your tdr, you either dont do much more than just forward flying big sky, or you suffer from serious placebo effect. If you say it flies better, nicer....etc, yes maybe will soon post my own experience, and it wont be biased!
Let me stress the weight is not an issue for me, all im saying is that it wont replace my ligter and better pwr to weight machines, rather fill a niche. Its not a logo vs others just a new kid
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:22 AM   #34
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It has a vastly superior feel to a Raptor IMHO. I am not a beginner by a long shot and I have a TDR that weighs just over 10 .lbs with Radix 690's and 4400 packs. It has a Xera 4530LE in it. It is not hurting for power.

The TDR gets pushed around in 3D BAD as it is so light you can't place it where you want it and I run 1950 on TDR. In inverted autos and etc the TDR autos superbly but can get pushed around bad by wind. The TDR can NOT be smacked like L700. If you think it can you go right ahead and try. NO ONE on earth flew a TDR harder for smack than Timo and he got all a TDR had to give on smack style flying.

I love my TDR, but I don't keep it for same reason as Logo. They really nothing alike.

Logo 700 do speed runs, uh... nope. They are just for two totally different things, but L700 feels just as light on the sticks as TDR does.

I don't do speed runs with TDR either, all I do is 3D with it. Being too light has it's disadvantages as well. I'm not going to argue with you, if you like it fly it, if not then don't.

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Old 11-23-2012, 12:34 AM   #35
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Opinions and feedback is always great. Look forward to hearing what you like or dislike bout the model Stolla. I could write a novel I'm sure of what "I" felt or thought of with different models but that would only be my opinion. It i did not feel the Logo felt good, or flew good I would not even have posted anything about it in truth, I would have kept searching and trying other new 700 class machines. I feel this model platform is going to go far as their deeply invested into it and I know Ralph is no where's near done yet with new ideas for existing and new models. That is a good thing.
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Old 11-23-2012, 02:16 AM   #36
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Might have to try one, yeh. 12 lbs it still acts good, my xtera trex 700 weighed 12 lbs, my Joker 3DD weighed 12 lbs, It being solid and top and bottom CGs must be pretty good.
Be good for my new motor in the making
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:55 AM   #37
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It has a vastly superior feel to a Raptor IMHO. I am not a beginner by a long shot and I have a TDR that weighs just over 10 .lbs with Radix 690's and 4400 packs. It has a Xera 4530LE in it. It is not hurting for power.

The TDR gets pushed around in 3D BAD as it is so light you can't place it where you want it and I run 1950 on TDR. In inverted autos and etc the TDR autos superbly but can get pushed around bad by wind. The TDR can NOT be smacked like L700. If you think it can you go right ahead and try. NO ONE on earth flew a TDR harder for smack than Timo and he got all a TDR had to give on smack style flying.

I love my TDR, but I don't keep it for same reason as Logo. They really nothing alike.

Logo 700 do speed runs, uh... nope. They are just for two totally different things, but L700 feels just as light on the sticks as TDR does.

I don't do speed runs with TDR either, all I do is 3D with it. Being too light has it's disadvantages as well. I'm not going to argue with you, if you like it fly it, if not then don't.

Norman Ross Jr.
Dont understand me wrong, i never said a tdr smacked like a l700, i only said if it flies as light for you than tdr, maybe you should try the 3 kg banshee at 2300, then you suffer from placebo effect so your perception which is a very unscientific conclusion
This is mik forum and ive always liked them but theyre not the only nice helis on earth, to say it flies vastly superior than a raptor e 720, then youre also saying its vastly better than my banshee, tdr, you name it as none of these are vastly superior to my 720, so again only your based opinion and perception, suffice to say i will still keep my e720 with rewinded 1.5 mm yy winding, as it will always have a better pwr to weight ratio than the logo. So first thing my friend said after he flew his was, "gaui x7 actually feels nicer", another perception. Any heli flies as well as the setup, bottom line look at my fleet im not biased towards brand names, my helis all carefully tuned and setup, all with my own handwind motors, they all fly superbly, each filling a certain niche for me. Again and seems im having difficulty explaning this, i dont doubt its awesome machine etc,etc, im saying because its much heavier than the likes of my 720 i it wont replace the lighter machine but fullfil another role. going on about smacking tdrsm speedflying etc, nothing to with what i posted
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:58 PM   #38
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Enjoy whatever you fly.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:50 AM   #39
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Yea, we all have our favorites, our likes and dislikes. L700 appears to be a top notch heli at any rate.


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Old 11-24-2012, 10:01 AM   #40
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There is no such thing as a perfect heli that does EVERYTHING the best.

I expect that the Protos 700 will win the battle of cheapest 700 to crash, with the lowest parts count and simplist drivetrain while having a great power to weight ratio and no risk of stripping gears, low vibrations, and a great sound. With the large tail cog it has, it won't have any chance of having the belt pop a cog in hard manuevers either.

The Logo 700 still has two issues that will be addressed eventually.

1. The Dino motif canopy is ugly as sin. It is garrish and almost as tacky looking as the original Goblin canopy. However, I'm sure that there will be some tasteful canopies eventually available, or 3rd party options.

2. The current combo kit. I would never buy an L700 unless it came as a barebones kit. I'm sure they will address this later as they did with the 800. I personally see this as a way to milk the early adopters and I don't appreciate it.

I think the design looks well thought out, but at the moment it really doesn't appeal to me. The 600SX still looks nicer to me than either of the XXtreme models.
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