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Skookum Robotics Skookum Robotics SK-360 SK-540 & SK-720 Digital Flybar


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Old 11-22-2012, 12:06 PM   #1
georgi UK
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Arrow Skookum team pilots setups......HOT!! GOT EVEN HOTTER!!

=] interesting!

http://www.skookumrobotics.com/pilots/
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:57 PM   #2
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Cool ... I would be one of the compass 7HV interested
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #3
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Yes interesting. Know every heli will fly different, but check out their Hiller Decay: 140 - 165, I`m around 120 on my 550. And their bell gains: 55 - 70, I`m at 80. Also see they have lots of trim on some of the ships and swash travel % are not even close to 100 100.
I want to mess around with my Hiller decay and bell gains - not 100% understandable - guess the best way is to play around and see what difference it will make
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:40 PM   #4
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What I find really interesting is all are flying the Gaui X5 &X7!!! What does that say!!!
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:42 PM   #5
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i sure do like my x5.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:55 PM   #6
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Very interesting indeed. Just looked at eithans x7 setup. Hiller of 140 bell gains at 50 odd and control rates maxed out. He must be leaving his bell gains there and not self tuning like me.


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Old 11-23-2012, 02:37 AM   #7
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My X5 rocks. It's a very well designed heli.


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Old 11-23-2012, 10:44 AM   #8
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At last! This is good stuff but it does raise the question does the auto tune really work! My 7hv at 2100rpm is auto tuning bell gains to 85 when control rates are set to 250/270. Doesn't seem particularly fast but the skookum thinks that's as fast as it can go. I think I'll try manual tuning from now on. Shame you can't see rpm. maybe 2500rpm will do the trick!

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Old 11-23-2012, 12:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaaakeey View Post
At last! This is good stuff but it does raise the question does the auto tune really work! My 7hv at 2100rpm is auto tuning bell gains to 85 when control rates are set to 250/270. Doesn't seem particularly fast but the skookum thinks that's as fast as it can go. I think I'll try manual tuning from now on. Shame you can't see rpm. maybe 2500rpm will do the trick!

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=] Tom, the "missing" bit is in the Tx settings, the options are, crank up the unit settings and tune it down by the Tx settings feel, OR (as these guys must be doing?) leave the Tx alone and tune the bell gains lower?
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:06 PM   #10
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Georgi, are you saying they just leave their bell gains @ 50 odd and wack the control rates up as there's no way those helis are able to get control rates that high with low bell gains!

Also, have you seen the travels in there too, all over the shop...
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:10 PM   #11
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I can help answer any questions about how we set up our helis and SK540.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:28 AM   #12
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Hi Alvin

Thanks for coming on here and offering your knowledge! I think it's the 1st time a sponsored pilot has been on here.

I have questions! Lots of them

1. I find bell gains easily exceed the recommended 85 at relatively slow control rates at what I would consider high head speeds on my 7hv. Looking at the team pilots settings their bell gains are very low(50) and some are running their control rates very high! This seems go against what we are Told to do in the manual. Could you elaborate? I hit 85 bell gains at 240/270 control rates with a 2100rpm head speed using a 4525le motor.

2. A lot of people seem to hit a tuning dead end when attempting to get rid of an elevator bounce after a hard stab on the cyclic which returns fast to center. The heli will nod 2-3 times. This behaviour is present on other fbl systems but with stop gain ajustments seems to be suppressed to nearly nothing. Any advice on this? (7hv is a prime example. Lots of people having probes) . What do you think is exceptible elevator dampening bounce if any?

3.v bar has a huge user base and as such some very good forum guides for tuning. I think skookum would benefit greatly from a tuning guide as people become quite confused with the advanced guide on the wiki as it is. Something like a step by step tuning flight plan.

Any tips you could offer would be of great help as I for one sometimes feel their is a lot of black magic involved in tuning the sk540 at the moment. I have got my 7hv flying very will on an sk540 and except for my perceived issue with elevator bounce and auto bell gains that auto tune passed 85 very quickly the sk540 is fantastic. Maybe I'm expecting too much and the sk540 is running near optimal performance but I just don't know!

Thanks for any advice you can give in advance.

Tom

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Old 11-24-2012, 09:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinchai View Post
I can help answer any questions about how we set up our helis and SK540.
=] Alvin, much appreciated! this could be, the best thread, ever!!! thanks, georgi.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcallister View Post
=] Alvin, much appreciated! this could be, the best thread, ever!!! thanks, georgi.
+1 Yes Alvin we all know you fly great so stop practising and playing with your heli`s and come talk to us for a while
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:11 PM   #15
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I will start with a basic overview of how we setup the SK540/SK720 and some advance setup we use for 3D in another post. I can answer any specific questions after that.

SK540/SK720 basic setup overview

Mounting Pad
- The SK540 likes to be hard mounted, even on nitros. I know the earlier SK540 came with the black foam tape, it will work but not as good. I like using the 3M Exterior Mounting Tape. All new SK540 now comes with thin white tape, those work really good as well.


Swashplate Tab
- I use 10 degrees of cyclic pitch on my helis. Some team pilots are using 8-9 degrees as they feel it suit their flying style and setup better. I would say 10 degrees is a good number to use.

- Some people may find the cyclic pitch values may not be equal on both sides (e.g. left and right aileron cyclic, front and back elevator cyclic) but it doesn't matter as long as each side is at least 10 degrees.


Swash Servos Tab
- Trim each servos so they are centered and swashplate is level with zero pitch at center stick

- Before adjusting the Travel (%), check to make sure the swashplate is level throughout the pitch range. If one servo is moving more (or less) than the others at max or min pitch, adjust the Travel (either + or -) for that servo so the swashplate is level at max, mid, and min collective stick.

- Once this is done, use the Swash Mixing to set the pitch range you want, and adjust the Travel (%) to get equal positive and negative pitch if necessary. Make sure you increase or decrease the same % amount on all Center, Right, and Left so the swashplate stays level.

- Don't worry if the final Travel (%) is all over the place, as long as the swashplate remains level, it will be fine. However take care in not to overdrive the servo by having too high Travel (%). I limit mine to around max 130%

- If you are maxing out your swash mix and travel, and still not getting enough collective or cyclic pitch, then increase the distance of the servo horns.


Cyclic Tab
- Control Rates are basically flip and roll rate. The higher the control rates, the faster the heli flips and rolls. Do some FULL flips and rolls, and adjust the control rates to suit your liking.

- Bell Gains are basically how fast the heli response to your stick movements. High bell gain will make the heli "react" faster to your sticks, and low bell gain will slow it down. However high bell gain may cause the heli to rebound at stops.

- Self-tune Bell Gain is a good start to tune the bell gain. The self-tune value will work for the majority of pilots. Just enable self-tune bell gain and allow 2-3 flights for the 540 to auto tune to your flying style. After that you can turn it off if you wish.
- I think the manual suggest to adjust the control rates to achieve around 85% of bell gain. That is a good starting point, but I will discuss later on how we tune it.

- Hiller Gain is the "locked-in power" of your heli, basically it works like your normal tail gyro gain. The higher the gain, the more locked-in your heli feels. However too high hiller gain will cause the heli to shake or wobble in hover or in 3D (just like how the tail will hunt if gain is too high) I always keep the default value of 50,50 for the hiller gain, and run an overall gain of around 50-60%. You can adjust this thru your transmitter or use the Lock Cyclic Gain function.
- For smaller heli, I like to run around 30-40% overall hiller gain, as too high will cause the heli to wobble in aggressive 3D.

- Damping Gain. I find that the default value of 18,16 for the damping gain seems to work well for most helis. However if you have some cyclic rebound at stops, try reducing the damping gain. One thing to note is that the damping gain is propositional to the hiller gain i.e. if you increase hiller, damping increases as well.

- Tail Drag Comp basically help keep the heli level throughout the pitch range. This is more for elevator than for aileron. Since helis have big heavy bodies and long light tail booms, there may be drag in the tail when you give full positive or negative pitch. For example if there is no Tail Drag Comp, when you give full pitch and climb, the tail will dip down and lag behind the body, and vise-versa.
- Do a full pitch climb out and full pitch descend, and adjust tail drag comp so the entire heli remains level throughout.

- Hiller Decay. The lower the hiller decay, the more "heading hold" the swashplate has and helps keep the heli stable in high winds. Just as an example of how hiller decay works, if you set it to 0%, the swashplate will hold the last position/heading in flight and will stay there until you move it back. At max 200%, the swash will always move to level slowly.
- However low hiller decay can cause some oscillation during 3D. I like higher hiller decay because it makes the heli feels more smoother in maneuvers. For 600-700 size helis, I prefer around 150-165%. For smaller helis, I like using 185-200%.

- Cyclic Accel is the acceleration of your cyclic. It does not affect the sensitivity or range of the cyclic. Imagine the Control Rate is the top speed of a car, and Cyclic Acceleration is how fast the car can accelerate to that speed.
- So the higher the Cyclic Accel, the faster the cyclic moves.


Tail Tab
- Control Rates controls how fast you want your tail to spin. The higher the rate, the faster the tail spins.

- Rate Gain makes the tail stable, without it the tail will go crazy
- Hold Gain makes the tail locked-in into a heading. This is more or less like the Hiller Gain for cyclic.
- I hardly adjust the Rate and Hold gain, and the default values works well in all my helis.

- Collec Mix helps keep the tail straight during full climb and descend. Almost all helis today have powerful motors, and the instant torque created by these motors can caused the tail to kick or not keep up when pitch is applied. Adjust Collec Mix so the tail stays straight.

- Start Accel controls how fast/powerful the tail starts moving when you move the rudder sticks. If you tail feels soft to start, increase Start Accel.

- Stop Accel controls how fast/powerful the tail stops when you let go of your rudder sticks. If your tail rebounds after a stop, reduce the Stop Accel.


First Flight
- Check all pitch, cyclic, and rudder direction is correct, and make sure the gyro is compensating in the right direction when you tilt the heli.
- Find a nice calm day, set the Hiller Decay to 200% and hover.
- If the heli drifts to one side, adjust the swash linkage to counter the drift. For example, if the heli drifts to the right, either lengthen the right servo linkage or shorten the left servo linkage. Do one turn at a time.
- Don't worry if the swash level is slightly off after doing this. However if it is too much, then something else needs to be checked on the heli.
- Once the heli remains stable in hover, adjust the Hiller Decay to your liking.


I think that's about it for basic setup overview

Last edited by georgi UK; 12-27-2012 at 04:44 AM.. Reason: remote edit
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:24 PM   #16
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Awesome stuff Alvin Now on to the finer points of 3D tuning....

Also, as i said earlier you boys seem to have a very low bell gain and high control rates.

I gave up with the self tune feature a few years ago and have flown with maxed out control rates and just left bell gains both @ 85. I haven't had any ill effects with it and no bouncing, nodding that others have had.

Do you see anything wrong with that?
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:26 PM   #17
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bookmarked!
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:06 PM   #18
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Awesome stuff. Thank you Alvin.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:58 AM   #19
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What a champion to do all that. Thanks mate.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinchai View Post
]SK540/SK720 basic setup overview
That was a great post... Who can sticky this?
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