Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-18-2012, 01:45 PM   #61
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

Question on the belt, how long does it take to break in? And how far should I be able to push it in at the front? Been a while since I had a belt lol

Also does anybody here use gov mode? Is the gain too high when I do punch outs and get fast tail wag

Last edited by michael88997; 12-18-2012 at 04:10 PM..
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 10:49 PM   #62
el guapo
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,210
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: san jose, California
Default

belt it should feel very tight from the front. i upgraded to the carbon tail which looks neater and makes it easier to adjust.. but its not like it will really cause a problem. you'll hear the belt rattle when its loose. actually its normal to hear the belt rattle during hard 3D, but when its loose you hear the belt rattle after you land and the heli is spooling down.

in regards to tail wag... it really depends. but I posted my castle file. you can open it.... gain is 12. the VBAR gov is better. and hobbywing sensor is only $3 +$45 for vbar pro. pretty awesome upgrade. it handle's low head speed better then castle gov. castle gov only works well near max head speed.
__________________
Greg
Lynx Team Pilot
Heli: Logo 500; TDR; Trex700E; Blade 130X
Flight video:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
el guapo is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:39 AM   #63
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

Ok cause I tightened my belt up cause I think it was way too loose and now my motor is running hot, I did fly harder but didn't know if it was from the flying or the belt


I tried gov gain of 12 but I think it was way too slow because it was taking it a few seconds to slow the rpm down whenever I unloaded the head
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:44 PM   #64
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

for you guys that use gov mode... is this rpm change an indication of my gov gain being too low?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rpm.png
Views:	64
Size:	53.4 KB
ID:	375993  
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:22 PM   #65
el guapo
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,210
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: san jose, California
Default

can you post the same graph with the % power shown. your curve looks much flatter then mine.

I'd like to help but.... i don't want to tell you that what you are experiencing is normal... but it could be normal.

keep in mind that the more power you have, the lower the gain will have to be to prevent tail kick.. Mr Mel videos on vbar gov set up have been very helpful for me to understand the limitations of governors with electric helis. when you have too much torq and high gain, the tail is going to kick. and the castle gov is not that good.

the only way I've gotten castle gov to work is to select the correct pinion and run a head speed at or over the recommended max head-speed predicted in the castle software. the more powerful the motor, the less over head you need. i don't have a 4025. i have a 4020. maybe you need 550 blades and a 15 tooth to make that work out. or try higher head-speeds.

one reason people run kontronik jives becasue they have fantastic governors and they work very well at lower head-speeds, even with too much over head. If you watch my logo500 video in my signature,I was using castle gov, you can hear massive over speeding at the beginning of the video with low head speed(1800) once I idle up to 2200rpm it holds very well.

the vbar gov with castle ESC is huge improvement with low head speeds.
__________________
Greg
Lynx Team Pilot
Heli: Logo 500; TDR; Trex700E; Blade 130X
Flight video:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
el guapo is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:38 PM   #66
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

here ya go... well i have it set at 2250 rpm which it gives me the warning that its too high... it looks like when im flying it semi hard it gets up close to 100.... the only times its down low is hovering....

the heli hovering flies great... but whenever i do full pitch up and some hard tic-tocs i get a very fast small tail wag

today is a great day so im hoping to change the settings some then go fly again
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	with power.png
Views:	64
Size:	57.6 KB
ID:	376008  
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 03:05 PM   #67
el guapo
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,210
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: san jose, California
Default

looks like you still have plenty of headroom. you have peaks hitting 100% which is good. and with the set up you have right now, you shouldn't have any bogging....when you are running out of headroom what you'll see is the % hit 100% and flat line there. like the top of the peak as been "clipped". clipping at 100% is actually not bad for most flying. and its a softer power delivery. but you are more likely to bog on really fast funnel tic tocs or other back to back moves.

if you read the notes and comments in mr head speed calc (when you select vbar gov option).... he talks about +performance and target performance and -performance. looking at your plot and guessing that you are flying aggressively, I'd say that you are in the +performance range. but the "-performance" range actually flys really well and he says its easier on lipos and get longer flight times. I guess the sharp peaks in current are hard on the lipo. I recently went thru this with my TDR and dropped one tooth and got better smoother performance. but keep in mind that a more powerful motor will skew the results from the calculator. and KVs on motors are never exact.

I'm kinda a scorpion fanboy, and think the new HK3 motors are more efficient and powerful then previous versions. so I've fond that changing the "Motor peak efficiency" setting to 93% in the calc gives a closer fit to my motors.

looking at the text I copied below. I'd recommend 2345. and then go back and check the percent power.


1100kv 16 tooth. Motor peak efficiency 90%
For + performance, keep req. RPM below: 2192
For target performance, keep req. RPM below: 2280
For - performance, keep req. RPM below: 2345

Result of External governor (VBar, SK etc)

The External govenor will product 3 results, the first result is where you get virtually no bogging, but it will be very stressful on your packs, motor and esc. Second is where you want for best performance overall, third is if you prefer longer flight-times
__________________
Greg
Lynx Team Pilot
Heli: Logo 500; TDR; Trex700E; Blade 130X
Flight video:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
el guapo is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 03:21 PM   #68
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

I bumped it up to 2270 and played with my tail gain... Went from 60% in my radio up to 69% and I still had a fast tail wag whenever I did a fast climb out, or tic tocs... I'm almost temped to just run a flat tc instead cause I'm already use to that and the only reason I tried gov mode was so I wouldn't overspeed the head but its doing that anyway lol
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 03:29 PM   #69
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

When going higher hs what part do I need to be careful of for failure? My kit did say the tail has bigger bearings for reliability
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 05:18 PM   #70
el guapo
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,210
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: san jose, California
Default

blink182 says he ran up to 2600rpm. people run these with 600mm blades.


only thing that worries me is the tail. I've ejected tail grips on my 600 which I run at 2200rpm.. the 500 and the 600 use the same grips. there is a new hub for the logo 600sx which has a 3mm spindle bolt. the old bolt was 2.5mm. my kit had the old hub. it depends on the tail blade size and how hard you beat the tail. but I've also thrown a grip on a quick UK tail.

since then, I decreased the max tail pitch and everything held together since then.... If I hear the tail working too hard in mobius funnels I'll decrease the end points. and just use more cyclic and less colective. I believe the tail blades get inefficient as they approach 45 degrees of pitch and it strains the tail. the TDR only allows 30 degrees and if I push it too hard it will just genitally piro left a bit till I back off the collective. seems like a better idea then bogging the tail.
__________________
Greg
Lynx Team Pilot
Heli: Logo 500; TDR; Trex700E; Blade 130X
Flight video:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
el guapo is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 07:48 PM   #71
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

Well I will try to lower the gov gain to 12 and see if the tail wag goes away then work the gain up
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 07:31 PM   #72
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

Well I flew again today... Cc gov gain was 12 and gain in my tx was 60 and it was almost gone, I think maybe 1 or 2 clicks more and I should be all set... Now just gotta wait for it to warm up some :/
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 10:12 PM   #73
maarset
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,710
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Rocklin, Ca
Default

Woot!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
NWO
maarset is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:37 PM   #74
rdlohr
HF Support
 
Posts: 22,943
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Great thread!
Rick
__________________
Helifreak, the place to be!
Rush 750,Logo 400SE 600SE, TREX 450SE, 500, 600, Blade mCPX,130X, Nano QX, MiniProtos w/BD

My products, flown by top pilots around the world, like you!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rdlohr is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 11:36 AM   #75
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

Ok guys went out flying today and I'm still having a little trouble with my vbar, I've lowered the gain down quite a bit and I'm still getting some wobble on hard stops, and when I do horizontal tic tocs I get fast tail wag

My cc gov gain is set to 11, what should I look to change? It's an awesome day so I would like to get it completely setup today
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 12:40 PM   #76
el guapo
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,210
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: san jose, California
Default

I used to get a massive wag at the bottom of tail slides. it went away when I went to Vbar gov.
http://helidirect.com/rpm-sensor-p-26366.hdx
__________________
Greg
Lynx Team Pilot
Heli: Logo 500; TDR; Trex700E; Blade 130X
Flight video:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
el guapo is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #77
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

Those just plug into a motor wire correct? Also how much is the pro upgrade, I heard it was 100 bucks but when I went online it says 45,00 usd so I'm assuming that's 45 bucks
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 12:54 PM   #78
matt713
Registered Users
 
Posts: 133
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saint Augustine, FL.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael88997 View Post
Those just plug into a motor wire correct? Also how much is the pro upgrade, I heard it was 100 bucks but when I went online it says 45,00 usd so I'm assuming that's 45 bucks
Correct its $45USD
__________________
Goblin 700 Competition -- Goblin 500 --- T-Rex 450 Pro V2 --- DX8
matt713 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 01:10 PM   #79
michael88997
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lewisville, texas
Default

Dang my LHS doesn't have any... What about the head bobble? My gain is already pretty low
michael88997 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 02:00 PM   #80
el guapo
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,210
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: san jose, California
Default

pro is $45 as posted. but, I think its $100 if you had the guai version of the VBAR.

pro is worthwhile if you are picky and more experienced with Vbar.. express is super easy and flys very well.

pro also has active optimizers. for the cyclic and the tail. you turn them on, do a few hard stops on every axis and it will do a pretty good job of tweaking the gain vs the agility you've selected. then you turn them off. I dial up the gain pretty high on logo cyclics. in the high 90s. a few wiggles here and there are kind of normal. I don't think I own a heli that doesn't exhibit some artifacts here or there. its less apparent on larger helis. but its very mild and doesn't impact my flying. VBar is not perfect, but it is the best right now. its hard to make a coment without seeing the amplitude of the bobbles.

Vbar gov is really good. performance is on par with Kontronix gov. with a mini vbar you will need to make a patch cable to power the HW RPM sensor. the sensor port on the min doesn't have 5V on the power pin for the sensor. strange but true. witt the fullsize vbar, you plug the sensor into the VBAR and then solder two wires to the motor leads and you are ready to go. MR mell has videos.

btw, the hobby wing RPM sensor its the only one that works with the castle firmware.
__________________
Greg
Lynx Team Pilot
Heli: Logo 500; TDR; Trex700E; Blade 130X
Flight video:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
el guapo is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com