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Old 12-14-2012, 02:29 PM   #1
FPVflyer
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Default Problem with NAZA-H

Hi peoples,
I have a trouble wiht my NAZA-H, it's the first time I make a setup with it, and what's strange, is that when I turn it on, in manual mode the swashplate is completely incorrect, the controls are right, but the answer to movements is very slow. Also the neutral position is completely incorrect, when I switch ti ATTI the swashplate go immediately in neutral position, and the answer to movements is fast, is that correct?

For better understand the problem, please check this video:

https://vimeo.com/55634114
pass: freak

Thanks a lot for your help!

'flyer
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:21 PM   #2
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In manual mode you will get no correction to movement. It is manual and you control the swash. In ATTI and GPS the controller compensates for the movement. It looks normal to me. Did it react correctly in the feedback section of the Assistant? If so it looks like you are ok.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:26 PM   #3
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Tahoe - is this how yours behaves?

Normal FBL controllers (eg beast etc) are essentially manual mode, but still correct against movement... That is after all the entire basis of a FBL system... Gyro detects an un-commanded movement, moves servos to compensate... It's how it replaces the stabilising effect of a flybar.

If I move any of my other FBL controlled heli's around, the swash reacts to the movement...

To see no movement in manual mode strikes me as odd.

The swash being so far out of position is also bizarre - can you confirm this is how yours is?

I would help, but mine is still in the box and I haven't even come close to setting it up yet.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:38 PM   #4
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Mine reacts exactly as your video shows. No movement in Manual and compensation in ATTI and GPS. I understand what you are saying. I have owned different FBL controllers. The DJI units are different. It took the guys at the AMA field off guard because they were expecting the same thing and when it did not do it they thought something was wrong. It wasn't.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:44 PM   #5
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That's useful info...

Can't really wrap my head around why the swash behaves like that in manual though, especially with the big tilt back and left.

You would have thought that would instant tip the heli when you spool up.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:08 PM   #6
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Hi Tahoe,
so another question,
the NAZA quick start guide suggest to do the maiden flight in manual mode, to be honest I'm afraid to do it showing how the swashplate is moving, what happen if I take off in ATTI, and then once in flight I switch to manual?
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:15 PM   #7
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Remember the Naza has a barometer. It knows when you are on the ground and when you are in the air. Most other controllers do not. The WKH does not react at all unless you are connected to the Assistant in test mode or flying. I remember with my 700 part of the ground test before flight was to check the movement of the swash on the ground before takeoff with the Gyrobot and the HC Rigid.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:42 PM   #8
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When your unit is set to manual mode..I have to assume it will function as a straight flybarless controller.
That being said, reaction to any stick input will be extremely slow due to the fact the helicopter is not in the air and the controller is not "seeing" any correction to its action .

Also the swash plate correction is dependent on your FBL gain settings.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:09 PM   #9
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Wow, I don't know much about that system, but it sure seems weird to me. In particular, the lean the swash takes in manual mode.

Are your trims centered? I imagine they should be.

When you switch to manual mode, does the swashplate slowly tip over, or it moves suddenly? I didn't hear the servos jump so I think it happens over 1-2 seconds?

When you move the stick in manual mode, am I seeing it right, that the swash reaction is sort of slow?

To me, it almost seems like they are controlling the swash purely with I-term, and no P-term. If your trims aren't centered, that would explain why it slowly tips over.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:12 AM   #10
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Default new video deom

Here another small vid about what happen:

https://vimeo.com/55658565
pass: freak

I'm sorry for the quality, I've done it with iphone...

If you confirm me that is completely right, I will try the maiden on monday.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPVflyer View Post
, in manual mode the swashplate is completely incorrect, the controls are right, but the answer to movements is very slow. Also the neutral position is completely incorrect, when I switch ti ATTI the swashplate go immediately in neutral position, and the answer to movements is fast, is that correct?
That doesn't look right. It should look like this:

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Old 12-15-2012, 12:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPVflyer View Post
Hi Tahoe,
so another question,
the NAZA quick start guide suggest to do the maiden flight in manual mode, to be honest I'm afraid to do it showing how the swashplate is moving, what happen if I take off in ATTI, and then once in flight I switch to manual?
You can't take off in AH mode yet. At least not until they have the semi-auto-takeoff feature out. AH mode will lock in your "current" throttle and use only the pitch to hold the altitude. So, it is just impossible to take off in AH mode (for now).

The neutral position of your swashplate in manual mode shouldn't be like that. I would go through the setup wizard again to check everything.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPVflyer View Post
Here another small vid about what happen:

https://vimeo.com/55658565
pass: freak

I'm sorry for the quality, I've done it with iphone...

If you confirm me that is completely right, I will try the maiden on monday.
The iPhone video did quite well considering the lighting, it could re-focus well in the low light.

I noticed the radio and tray. I have often thought of using a tray.
On a later video if you could include a brief shot of how the straps are configured for the tray and how it is held stable.

Nice work and good to see the assistance with the setup.

Sorry to interject the extra question.

Mike
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:46 AM   #14
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Wesley - your swash looks much more like I would expect. Clearly there is something wrong with FPVflyers...

Does yours react to movement of the heli in manual mode?

Thanks for posting the video.

By the way, the way I always take off with my other helis is that I spool up in idle up on the ground then once I've reached full headspeed I lift off. This way would allow you to take off in Atti mode if you switch once full throttle has been achieved on the ground.

I was curious as to why DJI say it is currently not possible to do so... The only catch I could see is that unless you get it almost to hover pitch on the ground first, then when you switch out of Atti and back to manual the heli would drop a bit.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPVflyer View Post
Here another small vid about what happen:

https://vimeo.com/55658565
pass: freak

I'm sorry for the quality, I've done it with iphone...

If you confirm me that is completely right, I will try the maiden on monday.
Do you have any mixing going on in your radio?

Either that, or the center stick position is not being remembered properly in the Naza. Something like that it seems.

Wesley, could you do a short video, in manual mode for me? If you could get the Tx and the swash in the same frame. Then *quickly* push the cyclic to one side, and hold it. Then quickly push it to the other side, and hold. Do that a couple times.

Just trying to figure out what they're doing. It looks an aweful lot like how I had Arducopter working this summer.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeflyboy View Post
Wesley - your swash looks much more like I would expect. Clearly there is something wrong with FPVflyers...

Does yours react to movement of the heli in manual mode?
It does, slightly, and then it slowly going back to the original position. I think it is the same as any non-self leveling FBL controller. I'll shot a video in an hour or so. Need to take my daughter to her piano lesson now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeflyboy View Post
By the way, the way I always take off with my other helis is that I spool up in idle up on the ground then once I've reached full headspeed I lift off. This way would allow you to take off in Atti mode if you switch once full throttle has been achieved on the ground.
I tried doing similar thing with the NAZA-H. Throttle up to the head speed I want, flip to Alt Hold, then lift off. It kinda work, but one time, it tried to control the pitch immediately and it bounced a few time right on the ground. Luckily I always have the plastic balls under my testing heli. It didn't do any damage.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre View Post
Wesley, could you do a short video, in manual mode for me? If you could get the Tx and the swash in the same frame. Then *quickly* push the cyclic to one side, and hold it. Then quickly push it to the other side, and hold. Do that a couple times.

Just trying to figure out what they're doing. It looks an aweful lot like how I had Arducopter working this summer.
While on the bench with motor not running i suppose?
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:53 AM   #18
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That sounds more like behaviour I would expect to see in manual mode.

Interesting about the bounce - sounds like the same thing the Naza-M does sometimes when auto landing.

Perhaps it is best to wait for a firmware update before trying it lol
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley888 View Post
While on the bench with motor not running i suppose?
Yep. Just trying to gauge how it's working. I'm surprised if the control algorithm is as simple as it appears to be.
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre View Post
Wesley, could you do a short video, in manual mode for me? If you could get the Tx and the swash in the same frame. Then *quickly* push the cyclic to one side, and hold it. Then quickly push it to the other side, and hold. Do that a couple times.
Here you go.

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